Failing Bosch Points

[PumaVW79]

[wcfvw69]

[oprn]

[Frederik]

When buying tune up parts it sometimes says ”Bosch” disguised as a referense for the style or fitment but the part is not Bosch at all. I got tired not knowing what I would get when ordering new tune up parts, some worse than others, so I started collecting NOS parts a few years back instead. I don’t think you can go wrong with German Bosch points and you can still find plenty of them. It might change when they are gone, but why bother with new junk?

NOS German Bosch points. What I really like is the reinforced phenolic rubbing block.

This is Bosch compared to old Bremi points. Notice the crack in the rubbing block above rhe rivet? Almost all old Bremi points I’ve seen has this crack. I almost beginning to think it’s suposed to be there? But I wouln’t feel safe using them. Maybe the new plastic is better?

NOS Bosch to the right. Notice the grid pantern in the rubbing block (phenolic) to plain brown ”plastic” in the others. The others are used points I’ve changed out, so I don’t know the manufactured of them. But the ones to the left have the same rubbing block as Bremi and the same crack, but huge.

[rodeking]

Just bought these at NAPA, Echlin CS313, already installed or I would have taken a better pic.

[Frank Bassman]

Yep, those are the ones I run to trigger my TFI. (Napa)

I was noticing on the picture before that showed the old stock bosch on the right, and the cracks on the middle and left points, that the pivot shaft on the Bosch ones looks wider than the other two. It seems this reduction difference in shaft diameter is what is making them fail prematurely. Just the other day I saw yet ANOTHER set of newer Bosch points with the same issue on someone's car.

Fun fact, Autozone used to sell Bosch style points with a c clip on top of the shaft. Problem solved! Now I see they have the Echilin style points. Anyone care to comment on the design of the Echilin points with respect to the Bosch points? I find them to be excellent.


Happy new year all!

-Frank

[rodeking]

I took out a Bosch that had a little bit of pitting and put in the Echlin. I can say that the diameter of the pivot bushing is definitely larger on the Echlins. The end with the points doesn't look as beefy as the Bosch but there is a stiffening lip as you can see so I think they will be fine.

I also found a gray remote TFI with heat sink in my wiring stash. On a F150/Cummins conversion project I cut out the whole wiring harness out of a junkyard F150 including relay/fuse box and pretty much everything else I think I paid like $20 for the whole thing. I have used that many many times for connectors, sections of wire, relays, etc etc.

I am going to eventually install the TFI on my 1679, I've got the original connector plus about 2 feet of wires from it. Then run a hotter coil too.

On the '90 F150 that I put the Cummins in it had a 5.0 pig with the dizzy mounted TFI and it failed so stay away from the dizzy TFI's. Even if they are ok they have lead a hotter life than the remotes.

Happy New Year

[Frank Bassman]

Exactly rodeking, remote TFI is the way to go. Modok was the one that peaked my interest in the TFI conversion and ever since I did it, pertronix possibilities haven't even crossed my mind.

Funny you should mention about using a hotter coil. I have a CB magnaspark coil on my car, plugs gapped 0.030 ". I was thinking of opening up the gap to 0.035 or 0.040 seeing that stock TFI was anywhere from 0.045 to 0.052 or something like that. I have not done it because I have some concern for the limitations of the spark plug wires. I currently run beck arnley copper cores from rockauto, with a copper core center lead to coil as well. (Made it myself, the kit comes with a suppressor center coil to cap wire.) Today I ordered a set of smp glossy silicone jacketed wires because I have installed multiple sets on cars and have been VERY impressed with the quality of everything from connectors to sleeves.

I'm sure a stock TFI coil would be bulletproof on our applications but what about the wires and cap? Not trying to reinvent the wheel but I do like tinkering and all those factors got me thinking.

Thoughts?

-Frank

[Frederik]

I don’t think the pivot shaft wear out but rather the material in the plastic bushing that might wear. It would be interesting to see pictures of the failing points.

However the contact breaker lever is not hold down in any other way than with the spring (and snug fit shaft/bushing) in the later 1 piece points. If you release the spring you can pull the lever off the shaft. I would suspect you might have another isue with the distributor that's pushing the lever up or that the rubbing block isn’t hitting the cam evenly (you mentioned that you had to tweak them to line up the points).

[Glenn]

[Frank Bassman]

Frederick you made a good point. It is true, I originally thought that too but when I started seeing this repeatedly on other cars I started wondering. Why would it happen on 009's?


-Frank

[mark tucker]

in my 57 years of life I have found from my observations points are likked by the condensor, by the installer not greezzeing the lobe, installer not cleaning the lobes befor adding the new greessee,or a effed up lobe serface from rust or been run dry to long. and yes I have see contacts fall off a set of points...in the box.... I learned back in the early 90
s condensors were now shit.and the only ones that were not shit were the mallory condensors. occasionaly when the seasom was early and the work load was backed up for all the other guys I did some tune ups on some of the boats to get the people in the water. ( normaly I just did pussy boats...40'+ with 2 or 3 600 hp or more per engine & I ran the compleate HP machine shop) for the boats I put mallory condensors on all of them that required points...Ive chased my ass more than one time due to shit condensors...on my small boat

[modok]

The TFI coil is quite powerful, and will work, but IMO a little overkill, it can charge fast enough to run 8000rpm, I prefer a 1.5-2 ohm coil, so the module runs cooler.

Keep the gaps at about .035 IMO.
Open the gap too far it may start to crossfire in the the small distributor cap and rotor.

I am still using the same used set of points I had in 2013, with the tfi.
GOING for the record, I'm probably not there yet tho

[perello]

Just for reference, beru from germany compared to turkish

Sorry this second picture has reference inverted

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1974 German Thing
1978 Bug 1200

[old_man]

fairly old vs new. You people saying I should probably keep the old ones because of current quality?

[mr. lang]

Hope to go not too far off-topic.

[mr. lang]

[Frederik]

”Resitex” is the fibre reinforced phenolic material in the good old points. It was also the material used for example in the weight sliding plate. Phenolic almost being synonymous to ”bakelite”.

”Bakelite” is perhaps the most famous phenolic plastic and ”duroplast” (read about trabant cars) another reinforced phenolic plastic. I think it’s normal that when a patented material gets popular the brand name almost gets synonymous for all materials alike. It’s like using ”teflon” for all PTFE materials.

[Frederik]

[wcfvw69]

I'm officially done installing non NOS German made Bosch points. Their entry level 01011 points made in Mexico faces line up nicely. However, I discovered on another set in a customers distributor that the point arm that moves open/closed is on a rubber bushing. It was very sloppy on this set of not very old points. I caught it on my Sun distributor machine.

I'd also bought Bosch's highest quality 01011 points. The points faces are WAY off from aligning correctly. I had to take them apart to bend things so the faces lined up correctly.

I'm using another brand now that are much better quality.

Also, since this thread mentioned a few different brands of points over the years, I'll add some pictures of a few of these points sets for the record.

The first set is a Blue Streak set of premium points. They are almost new. The have the hole in the middle of the base face.

This is a Sorenson "cross-cut" set of points with a + cut across the faces. The cuts are to provide ventilation for the points faces. I think Wildthings suggested it was to help the points to not develop a pit or nipple on the face.

I've started to take a closer look at the used points that I've taken out of core distributors while I'm restoring them. It's kind of interesting to go back in time and find these long NLA sets and brands of points mounted on distributors that haven't been used for decades.
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