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Before I Kill Again... In Reverse
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msinabottle
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:55 pm    Post subject: Before I Kill Again... In Reverse Reply with quote

Backing Winston into his garage cave is always fun... Slight incline up the driveway, the need to be careful in a crowded one-car garage...

I have tennis balls on ropes to line him up, nylon rods to clatter and say STOP... But this year, I just keep killing his engine.

At high-ish revs, he's fine, and bounds backward like a jackrabbit. But at low, careful revs, he dies, dies, dies, dies. At least he's got a big, well-charged, starter battery. I called a car radio show with a knowledgeable VW guy. He, also, has problems.

I am grateful for and open to suggestions, causes, adjustments, and anatomically and/or mechanically possible solutions.

Shocked

Help.

Best!
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shagginwagon83
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Before I Kill Again... In Reverse Reply with quote

I was having a similar issue. I played around with my idle adjustment screw and moved my air flow meter needle onto a different carbon track.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Before I Kill Again... In Reverse Reply with quote

Been to a gas station lately? Could be as simple as bad gas. Locally, we had a tanker come in and drop its fill into our highest trafficked gas station, it had diesel contamination. A bit of water can act that way too.

But, ya, the more usual suspects are simpler. Like, say, you forgot to plug in your AFM. Or a vacuum line is busted or otherwise leaking. You know the drill, just happened to be at a frustrating time for you... Sleep on it. You'll dream through the fix. When the time comes, you'll say "damn, that's too simple!!!"

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:25 am    Post subject: Re: Before I Kill Again... In Reverse Reply with quote

Stretch diagnosis. Is it the same regardless of fuel tank level? Is it better with a full tank vs a low tank?
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msinabottle
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Before I Kill Again... In Reverse Reply with quote

Thank you, very much, for the replies! I have been thinking them over.

It has been quite some time since Blazer adjusted Winston's AFM. His idle does seem a bit low at times.

The problem did seem to improve after I replaced Winston's plastic cube fuel filter and ran some Techron through him... Possibly, as it's still bad, gunk is still working through his system. I run him on nothing but Conoco Top Tier Regular with MMO in it, and I put Sea Foam in his last tank of the season.

Prompted by a guilty conscience, I look up when I installed the big Bosch METAL post-pump fuel filter into Winston.

https://pre00.deviantart.net/63e3/th/pre/i/2018/241/f/d/bat_tat_by_urbangerbils-dclh13r.jpg

Hmmm... Over 11 years ago. Would anyone informed tell me if that's as too long an interval as it seems to me?

Shocked

I would say that the problem is worse when he's below a half-tank. Due to... issues... getting all the connections tight on an RMW steel coolant tank and a Van Cafe metal bleeder junction, I have spent a LOT of time looking over that engine. It idles and runs very well EXCEPT in this case.

Anybody have any shifting or accelerator techniques?

Best!
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raoul mitgong
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Before I Kill Again... In Reverse Reply with quote

Canít seem to post a gif...

https://goo.gl/images/SrbCbD
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: Before I Kill Again... In Reverse Reply with quote

Fuel filter service would be about 15000 miles. I asked about the fuel level because the vanagon fuel tank has an interesting internal plumbing arrangement that does fail. Externally it looks like the in and out fittings are at the edge of the tank, but someone posted some pictures of a tank cut open. You can see those fittings are plumbed to the center of the tank.

With the nose pointed downhill, the fuel runs to the front of the tank. The internal plumbing keeps the fuel pickup submerged. When it fails, the suction side could be getting air. It's a stretch diagnosis.

I rigged a 1 gallon gas can under the van I am working on now so that I could move it under its own power. The fuel tank is out of it at the moment. Good luck getting it sorted.
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Dampcamper
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Before I Kill Again... In Reverse Reply with quote

msinabottle wrote:



Anybody have any shifting or accelerator techniques?



Friend of mine with a Ferrari burns rubber every time getting up his steep driveway. Neighbor asks him who he's trying to impress?
His answer is "Nobody, but tires are cheaper than clutches". Not sure if this technique would work in a Vanagon?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Before I Kill Again... In Reverse Reply with quote

Dampcamper wrote:
msinabottle wrote:



Anybody have any shifting or accelerator techniques?



Friend of mine with a Ferrari burns rubber every time getting up his steep driveway. Neighbor asks him who he's trying to impress?
His answer is "Nobody, but tires are cheaper than clutches". Not sure if this technique would work in a Vanagon?


Yep, I have the same problem w/ my Ferrari too........ Embarassed Laughing
My Doka has that "breaking the stick" feeling when at low speeds, you step on it hard and pops and leaps foward.
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jberger
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Before I Kill Again... In Reverse Reply with quote

Not sure I follow... Just like parallel parking up a hill, milk the clutch. Milking a clutch doesn't damage it if done correctly. Enough revs and pressure to inch the van along. The 2wd reverse gear is not short.. trying to idle up a sharp enough grade with a fully engaged clutch is just not possible.

J
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calo1956
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Before I Kill Again... In Reverse Reply with quote

I don't have a answer to your problem. I just wonder why you go through all that hassle of backing in. I would rather have my exhaust blowing out of my garage then into it, but thats just me. Hope you find the issue.
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msinabottle
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:25 am    Post subject: Re: Before I Kill Again... In Reverse Reply with quote

I may well put in those new injectors, they seem to respond directly to issues with low idle.

And I didn't put the SeaFoam in. Might still. I THINK I replaced the big can filter, though.

Here's the RIGHT thread for installing that, BTW:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=239516

Best!
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Gizmoman
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: Before I Kill Again... In Reverse Reply with quote

As has been mentioned, reverse is taller than 1st (and a weaker gear as well). I have a steep driveway down to the shop. While I can back it up and out, it's much easier to back down. Driving up and out in 1st is a piece of cake. I've heard stories of folks breaking the reverse gear jump-starting in reverse Shocked

That said, the clutch is made to meter load relative to the torque produced by your right foot. How long it will do that is relative to time/application.

My guess is the stuff in your garage is arranged as to limit your ability to exit the van if you pull in using 1st. Maybe that's where the adjustment is required Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Before I Kill Again... In Reverse Reply with quote

Good clean grounds, even the bottom of battery box?
Disconnect & clean all connectors to FI harness?
New plugs, wires, dizzy cap & rotor?

All these projects improved my low idle at one time or another... Cool

- Dave
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Before I Kill Again... In Reverse Reply with quote

Dampcamper wrote:
msinabottle wrote:

Anybody have any shifting or accelerator techniques?

Friend of mine with a Ferrari burns rubber every time getting up his steep driveway. Neighbor asks him who he's trying to impress?
His answer is "Nobody, but tires are cheaper than clutches". Not sure if this technique would work in a Vanagon?

Guy in the 'hood has several hot rods and muscle cars and while driving past once I saw him preparing to load his blown, tubbed orange GTO Judge onto his trailer by doing a burnout.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Before I Kill Again... In Reverse Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
With the nose pointed downhill, the fuel runs to the front of the tank.


As would a slug of water sitting at the bottom of the tank?.... (???) But with ethanol gas,,,, does anyone have water at the bottom of their gas tank? Seems like ethanol would absorb all water and take it thru the system (and out the tailpipe over the past 15 years).

Could a fast-activing fuel pressure gauge tell you if there are fluctuations in fuel pressure that align with the moments that the engine stumbles? Maybe there's one broken wire that acts up when the transaxle lifts in reverse?

Can you monitor each injector voltage at the time the engine stumbles?

What does an LED light/intensity/signal pattern etc look like if you run a 12v LED "on injector voltage"? Run it up to the dash so you can watch it while driving. Maybe run four LEDs all same, should be all same intensity, right? Not sure if this is even worthy of a suggestion but it would be good clean, fun shadetree.

Can this be an excuse to buy a new "tool"?
Bluetooth Volt/Ohm/Ammeter $28
This seller is kinda silly, they don't even show you a pic of the tool display with corresponding app screenshots. Sheesh - how can these sellers leave $$ on the table? Answer: Seller who posted the item onAmazon doesn't understand their own product. But if you watch the video you can see one app screen of voltage.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Another one: $56^^^ and its app screenshot
(below)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

^^^OWON B35T Plus Multimeter with True RMS Measurement, Bluetooth BLE 4.0 (Android and iOS) and Offline Data Recording Function

This is what I have; Mooshimeter
I'm showing a pic of it and notice the most important 'fault' is:
there is no selector and no display.
( below )

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


^^^I bought this item ($125)^^^
Mooshimeter Wireless Multimeter back when it was the only one. Fully knowing that "soon" they will be dime-a-dozen and the price will drop. Dang,,,, that day came. And one thing I'm NOT happy with,,,, is the Mooshimeter has no selector, and no display.

You need to be able to read voltage on the meter directly, using classical methods. And then, if a 2nd screen becomes necessary (such as monitoring engine compartment voltage remotely, such as from the driver's seat) THEN you go thru the rigamarole of "starting an app".
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msinabottle
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Before I Kill Again... In Reverse Reply with quote

Thank you all, very much indeed, for these new suggestions! I'll try to answer all the inquiries I can...

Quote:
My guess is the stuff in your garage is arranged as to limit your ability to exit the van if you pull in using 1st. Maybe that's where the adjustment is required

Good guess! Adjustment is impossible. There wouldn't be enough room to load and fit out the van with the sliding door a foot from the wall.
Quote:
Good clean grounds, even the bottom of battery box?
Disconnect & clean all connectors to FI harness?
New plugs, wires, dizzy cap & rotor?

He runs and idles VERY well, if a TAD low at times. I made several new grounds to bare-metal chassis; I had the batteries out when I did his metal fuel lines and put conductive grease IN my connections and dielectric grease OVER them; I use those felt battery washers and the battery ground cables gleam; I REPLACED all the FI connectors and they still looked great when I did the fuel lines and pulled the injectors, which also looked great... I did put a new distributor cap on, Jim Blazer looked at the one I'd pulled and said it was less than half worn out. Put in new, German Bosch OEM plugs when I bought him in 2006, I have a set of those legendary NGKs waiting... Might pull a plug and inspect, I have NOT (the more fool I!) put that much mileage on him...
Quote:
With the nose pointed downhill, the fuel runs to the front of the tank. The internal plumbing keeps the fuel pickup submerged. When it fails, the suction side could be getting air. It's a stretch diagnosis.

It's steep enough to need gas parking him, but not THAT steep, the garage itself is fairly level... I don't let the tank get THAT low except before storing him...
Quote:
As would a slug of water sitting at the bottom of the tank?.... (???) But with ethanol gas,,,, does anyone have water at the bottom of their gas tank? Seems like ethanol would absorb all water and take it thru the system (and out the tailpipe over the past 15 years).

New tank, cube filter and can bracketing the pump, Top Tier gas ONLY, Sea Foam (usually) for Winter Storage... The issue occurs at the height of summer heat.
Quote:
Can you monitor each injector voltage at the time the engine stumbles?

Thank you for this thought and what follows. It doesn't stumble, though. It just DIES. Hence, the thread title. Ideally, I just smoothly back him in and inertia sees me through.
Quote:
Not sure I follow... Just like parallel parking up a hill, milk the clutch. Milking a clutch doesn't damage it if done correctly. Enough revs and pressure to inch the van along. The 2wd reverse gear is not short.. trying to idle up a sharp enough grade with a fully engaged clutch is just not possible.

So you're saying that I should ease off the clutch only so much as it takes for the Van to move? I've gotten very good at and enjoy driving Winston with his manual gearbox, but I admit to not being sure of what 'milking' the clutch, and 'double-clutching' mean.

Shocked

Again, thanks so much for the thoughts and efforts to help.

Best!
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