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gritkisser
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2019
Posts: 11
Location: Gainesville FL
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 Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:56 am Post subject: 71 bus comes to a hard stop in reverse when clutch is depressed |
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(edited) I’m all of a sudden having a weird issue with my 71 bus where, in reverse, it will move under power with the clutch out, like normal. As soon as I depress the clutch to the floor, the bus comes to a violent hard stop, like if going from reverse directly into a forward gear. It will roll backwards freely in neutral or with clutch depressed while in any forward gear. Shifts smoothly to all forward gears, though it now pops out of 2nd and 4th gear if I don't hold it in. This began at same time the reverse issue started. Also now noticing a shudder when taking off in 1st gear, but goes away with RPMs. Any ideas?
Last edited by gritkisser on Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16885
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:40 am Post subject: Re: 71 bus reverse only works with clutch engaged |
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time for a rebuild. sounds like the gear stack is racking internally and binding, or there is an issue with the hockey stick getting jammed between gears. either way, time to pull it before it eats itself to death
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
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| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
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gritkisser
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2019
Posts: 11
Location: Gainesville FL
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:36 am Post subject: Re: 71 bus reverse only works with clutch engaged |
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| Dang, was afraid of that. Thanks for the reply, Skills. |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: 71 bus reverse only works with clutch engaged |
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it is impossible to get into two gears at once because of the interlocks. If it is able to get into to gears either the interlocks have failed, or the gear carrier is so badly worn that something has gone wrong. Time to rebuild it.
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gritkisser
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2019
Posts: 11
Location: Gainesville FL
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: 71 bus reverse only works with clutch engaged |
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original post edited to clarify. The post that was here is now unnecessary. -gritkisser
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Last edited by gritkisser on Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: 71 bus reverse only works with clutch engaged |
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you need to do a much better job of describing the symptoms once you study what they are.
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bigbore
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2003
Posts: 3297
Location: Wasilla Alaska
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: 71 bus reverse only works with clutch engaged |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
time for a rebuild. sounds like the gear stack is
racking internally and binding, or there is an issue with the hockey stick getting jammed between gears. either way, time to pull it before it eats itself to death |
BINGO
The rev gear is the first to die most of the time then 4th in the 002s. I just finished another 094 today and opening up another tomorrow Iam selling them as fast as I can build them.
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gritkisser
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2019
Posts: 11
Location: Gainesville FL
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:19 am Post subject: Re: 71 bus reverse only works with clutch engaged |
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Ok, before I shell out for a tranny...
I put the rear end on jackstands. In reverse, as I let out the clutch the rear wheels rotate as they should. I can feather the clutch and they continue to rotate. As soon as i depress the clutch all the way to the floor, they come to an abrupt stop. I've checked transmission oil; full. Inspected Front Trans Mount: in good shape. Shifting has definitely become more difficult since this problem started and as described above, started popping out of 2nd and 4th around the same time the reverse issue popped up. Is there any possibility it could be shift linkage and not transmission?
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Airheads!
'71 Type 2 1600
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3899
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:42 am Post subject: Re: 71 bus reverse only works with clutch engaged |
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| gritkisser wrote: |
in reverse, it will only move under power with the clutch depressed. As soon as
I let off the clutch the bus comes to a violet hard stop. |
| gritkisser wrote: |
| In reverse, as I let out the clutch the rear wheels rotate as they should. I can feather the clutch and they continue to rotate. As soon as i depress the clutch all the way to the floor, they come to an abrupt stop. |
You say one thing, and then you say the exact opposite. Which is it? You also don't mention whether you have the clutch free play adjusted properly, which is
something that could be very relevant to your symptoms.
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gritkisser
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2019
Posts: 11
Location: Gainesville FL
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:13 am Post subject: Re: 71 bus reverse only works with clutch engaged |
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| Quote: |
You say one thing, and then you say the exact opposite. Which is it? You also don't mention whether you have the clutch free play adjusted properly, which is
something that could be very relevant to your symptoms. |
agreed, though I thought i had cleared that up in a subsequent reply above. Guess not. I've now edited the original post for clarity.
I'm not sure if I have my clutch free play adjusted properly or not, so that portion of your terse reply is helpful. Thank you, I will look at that tonight.
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"Let Go For Dear Life"
Airheads!
'71 Type 2 1600
'76 R75/6
Last edited by gritkisser on Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16885
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:23 am Post subject: Re: 71 bus reverse only works with clutch engaged |
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popping out of 2 & 4 has no bearing on freeplay. chances are it isn't a shift plate adjustment either, but worth a try.
if your brakes are a tad too tight they will stop pretty quick. if it's a hard, fast STOP chances are something is binding. in theory with the brakes loose they should continue to rotate 3-4 times depending on how fast you are going. if it isn't a gradual slow down I still say something is binding
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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gritkisser
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2019
Posts: 11
Location: Gainesville FL
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:36 am Post subject: Re: 71 bus reverse only works with clutch engaged |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
popping out of 2 & 4 has no bearing on freeplay. chances are it isn't a shift plate adjustment either, but worth a try.
if your brakes are a tad too tight they will stop pretty quick. if it's a hard, fast STOP chances are something is binding. in theory with the brakes loose they should continue to rotate 3-4 times depending on how fast you are going. if it isn't a gradual slow down I still say something is binding |
Thanks Skills. I really don't think this is brakes. Wheels rotate freely, and this only happens in reverse with the clutch depressed. It was one of the first things I checked because I read the threads about drum shoes coming off and getting wedged in reverse.
This issue has my local seasoned vintage VW mechanic stumped also. His solution is transmission replacement also, but I just want to make sure I check anything else that it might be before i go that route. The way this came on with zero prior transmission symptoms and no rattling or weird noises in the tranny just has me uncomfortable with that diagnosis. I drove it to work all week w/ no problems. Get up Saturday morning to run to the store, and boom... bus slams to a stop after backing down the driveway and pushing in the clutch.
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"Let Go For Dear Life"
Airheads!
'71 Type 2 1600
'76 R75/6 |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: 71 bus comes to a hard stop in reverse when clutch is depressed |
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the main shaft bearing wears into the nosecone, allowing the gear alignment to shift. Popping out of 2 and 4 is normally a result of that change in internal alignment. If the gears haven't been damages you might be able to squeeze a little more mileage out of it using a steel plate designed ot hold the main shaft bearing. Usually by the time this happens other things are going on too like a loose pinion nut and possible R/P damage.
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gritkisser
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2019
Posts: 11
Location: Gainesville FL
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: 71 bus comes to a hard stop in reverse when clutch is depressed |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| the main shaft bearing wears into the nosecone, allowing the gear alignment to shift. Popping out of 2 and 4 is normally a result of that change in internal alignment. If the gears haven't been damages you might be able to squeeze a little more mileage out of it using a steel plate designed ot hold the main shaft bearing. Usually by the time this happens other things are going on too like a loose pinion nut and possible R/P damage. |
Thanks. In your opinion, should I ask my repair guy to fix my existing tranny or should I get a rebuilt one?
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"Let Go For Dear Life"
Airheads!
'71 Type 2 1600
'76 R75/6 |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: 71 bus comes to a hard stop in reverse when clutch is depressed |
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| gritkisser wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| the main shaft bearing wears into the nosecone, allowing the gear alignment to shift. Popping out of 2 and 4 is normally a result of that change in internal alignment. If the gears haven't been damages you might be able to squeeze a little more mileage out of it using a steel plate designed ot hold the main shaft bearing. Usually by the time this happens other things are going on too like a loose pinion nut and possible R/P damage. |
Thanks. In your opinion, should I ask my repair guy to fix my existing tranny or should I get a rebuilt one? |
I can't answer that. It is not a lot of work to put the plate in but if it doesn't fix it then you are in to remove it again. Your VW mechanic should have known about this if he is familiar with bays.
This is an image from the gallery on how the metal plate fits. It goes between the nosecone and the intermediate housing to push the main shaft gear back where it belongs.
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bigbore
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2003
Posts: 3297
Location: Wasilla Alaska
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: 71 bus comes to a hard stop in reverse when clutch is depressed |
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don't assume all vw mech can rebuild a trany most can't. your test on the rev by jacking up you bus and running it in gear is no test at all you need to put a load on it to tell.
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gritkisser
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2019
Posts: 11
Location: Gainesville FL
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: 71 bus comes to a hard stop in reverse when clutch is depressed |
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| bigbore wrote: |
| don't assume all vw mech can rebuild a trany most can't. your test on the rev by jacking up you bus and running it in gear is no test at all you need to put a load on it to tell. |
Did that first.
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"Let Go For Dear Life"
Airheads!
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'76 R75/6 |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51154
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: 71 bus comes to a hard stop in reverse when clutch is depressed |
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Sounds like you have exhausted all the easy fix possibilities, like it or not that trans has to come out. As already mentioned not every VW mechanic can do a good job inside a transmission, seek professional help and avoid having to do it over soon.
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gritkisser
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2019
Posts: 11
Location: Gainesville FL
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: 71 bus comes to a hard stop in reverse when clutch is depressed |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| Sounds like you have exhausted all the easy fix possibilities, like it or not that trans has to come out. As already mentioned not every VW mechanic can do a good job inside a transmission, seek professional help and avoid having to do it over soon. |
Yes, I agree with you. Oh well. Thanks.
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"Let Go For Dear Life"
Airheads!
'71 Type 2 1600
'76 R75/6 |
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bigbore
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2003
Posts: 3297
Location: Wasilla Alaska
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: 71 bus comes to a hard stop in reverse when clutch is depressed |
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I re-read this thread and heres a thought check the end of the clutch cable tube at the back where the bowen tube is it should be attached to the torsion tube if is broken then that maybe your problem I have had to reattach them and made the clutch work right again.
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