Reupholstering 412 seats - how to remove seat back upholstery?

[Stlywo]

Hello,

I am trying to reupholster my front seats in a VW Type 4 and was wondering if you all could give me some tips on how to get the upholstery off of the seat back. I got the seat back pocket and board off, but I am not sure how to disassemble the seat to get the upholstery off. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I tried seeing if I could remove the lip that goes around the edge of the seat on the back, and didn’t have any luck.


Thanks,
Stacey

[raygreenwood]

Give me until tomorrow. There was a complete thread someone posted lasted year. I have to dig out the link from my list.
Also I can post the exploded view of the parts. Complicated seats.

Do you own this type 4 or are you an upholstery shop?

If you are a shop....make patterns. The rest of us could bring you business.

At this point.....NONE of the common VW upholstery shops has ever done a 411/412 seat. Sew fine and TMI....all list about $300 charge for pattern making before upholstery . Ray

[Stlywo]

Thank you so much!

We found this thread (which is amazing!) but didn’t see instructions about how to actually remove the upholersty: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=621762

And yes, we are the owners of the 412 (based in the Washington DC area) not a shop!

Here is what we are looking at right now:

[raygreenwood]

I know this does not help much....but hopefully they will help someone. As I noted...there are a LOT of parts in these seats. I realized after looking at the part # sheets...but here it is anyway.

I did not have a chance to look at my seats in my storage unit. I am back on Sunday of this week and will check...but if memory serves the seat back cover has splines in the piping or edge. I "think" there are bent over hooks or sharp teeth like you find around the bottom metal tubing of the seat base. I think you have to bend the teeth slightly up...and pull the cover forward to get the teeth back through the holes and the spline over the teeth.

Ray

[Stlywo]

Thanks! And yikes! A lot of parts indeed! That’s amazing that you have those diagrams! What book are they from? I have a copy of the shop manual but that doesn’t appear to be in there!

I haven’t been able to make much progress. I can’t even figure out how to get the head rest detached! The only upholstery hooks that I can find are on the bottom part of the backing... circled in yellow on the below photo....

My main issue that I’m trying to address is that the padding has started to wear out and the metal frame is now directly touching the upholstery, which is terribly uncomfortable. You can see where the frame is showing through in the below picture, also circled in yellow. Lucky it hasn’t poked through yet.

I’m now wondering if it’s better to just try to stuff in some extra padding from the back, rather than to take it all apart. I worry about my ability to get it all back together! Hmm...

Thanks again for your input on this!

[raygreenwood]

[Stlywo]

Thank you so much!

I’ll hold tight until you can get to your storage unit! No rush at all. I really appreciate all your help on this.

Super exciting to also learn about the digitization of the manual and upcoming possibility to download it!



Stacey

[pbnjimages]

you've got the back panel off, so you're doing great. At the top of the back opening, the material is sewn to a "J" channel. The two sides are sewn to very hefty plastic pieces which slide in. Soapy water or a shot of WD would have been helpful, but my wife and I just pulled-pushed the sides up the slots. Get both sides moved up a couple inches, and youll be able to then work the top edge out of its groove. It just lips in to its slot, feel up there and youll see. After the top edge is free, its just a matter of inching the sides up and out of their grooves.

The side pieces that slide in the tracks we saved, and reused. The top track was too shot during removal to be any good. A local upholstery shop had a few different types of channel, I picked one that was close, and then when assembling, used some heat to give it the final profile.

Try to be gentler then I was when taking apart the old, you never know what youll need to reuse.

Ill look through my photos, and see if I have any shots of the channel or process.
_________________
1974 412 variant
1965 notchback S

[raygreenwood]

[pbnjimages]

Thanks Ray, the schematics and your description do clarify what I was saying.

Stlywo, if you go back to my thread on reupholstering the seats, you'll see a couple of images of both the top "J" channel, and a shot of the side tracks that Ray referred to as bullnoses.

But to reiterate, Sliding the sides up a couple inches before working loose the top J channel will make it much easier. Just my experience.

Glad my thread was of help to someone. Feel free to IM with any detail questions you might have.

BTW, I wasnt planning on redoing to headrests, but after doing the seats, the headrests just didn't look fresh enough. Turns out they were a piece of cake. Work the bottom seam out at the corners, itll expose the zipper that holds them on. replicate the pattern, sew in the zipper, and pull on. A little heat from a hair dryer will allow you to stretch them in shape.

The bagginess in the pictures on my thread smoothed out after a couple days in the sun.

Good Luck!
_________________
1974 412 variant
1965 notchback S

[Stlywo]

All super helpful, thank you so much.

I’m a little confused as to what I need to do but I’ll be in touch soon after I’ve had a chance to sit with this some more. I may also need to recruit a second set of hands.

Couple quick questions at this juncture...

I don’t actually need to re-stuff the headrest, it is actually in pretty good shape- thanksfully! My problem is that I can’t physically pull it out of the seat! Is there some trick? And then also, I can’t get the dial off- the one on the side to adjust the seat! I’m assuming I just need to pull pull pull- is that correct?! Or is there some hidden latch/screw?!

Thanks again for all your help,

Stacey!

[pbnjimages]

On the readreast, theres a button on each side, about where the zipper holds the cover on. They face the inside. Push these both in, pull up.

If you knob on the side you are referring to is the one towards the top that lets the seat fold forward, this just muscles off.
If you are referring to the recline angle adjuster, my seats did not have that.
_________________
1974 412 variant
1965 notchback S

[pbnjimages]

The sewing machine I used was a portable Consew. Strong machine, and it was cheap. If I had done more homework, I would have bought a Sailrite, virtually the exact machine, but with way better documentation.

Heres a terrible picture with my thumbs on the release buttons

_________________
1974 412 variant
1965 notchback S

[Stlywo]

Bingo! The headrest pulled right off, I was never going to get that in a million years! Thanks, one step closer!

And the knob is towards the base of the seat, you can see it in the photograph I posted (in the lower left corner!). I’ll keep pulling on it!

Best,

Stacey

[pbnjimages]

Okay the recliner knob. that rotates the chain, i am pretty sure that has a set screw or dowel. Like I said, my seats did not have the recline adjuster, but I have played with them on seats from a K40.

Before you get crazy pulling on that knob, check around the base.

Ray will be able to give the answer on this
_________________
1974 412 variant
1965 notchback S

[raygreenwood]

Yes there is a small set screw in the knob.

Also I found a few pieces I saved from dissecting one of these seats.

I have some close ups of the "bullnose" piece and the J-hook piece that Pbnjimages described. i will post in the am.

I will say one thing...you guys are brave working on these seats. They are nothing like any other VW seat ACVW. They are similar in many ways to some of the Dasher and quantum seats. Complex.

I have kept my seat frames. I have two sets. I have a good enough cover on one to make a pattern.

All of that being said and skill involved...and even though these are just about the most comfortable seats in any ACVW...I have been looking hard at putting Procar 90 seats....very close.....on the original seat slides and slaving on the original headrests.

The more you guys work the closer I get to probably restoring my own seats. Ray

[pbnjimages]

Ray, if you have an extra recline knob and chain, of love to concert my drivers seat.
_________________
1974 412 variant
1965 notchback S

[raygreenwood]

[Stlywo]

Hmm... I can’t seem to find a screw anywhere. All I see in this little pin hole, can see right through it to the other side. What a puzzle. Any further hints?! I see the screw in the diagram but can’t actually see anything!

[pbnjimages]

are we looking at a hollow dowel pin maybe?

example below

_________________
1974 412 variant
1965 notchback S