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Zed999 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2018 Posts: 1241 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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Good work!
Did we mention that you've started your journey on a very fiddly bit?
I've seem "pro" repairs where this corner of the seal slot was 50% finger applied seam sealer. |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16803 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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that giant bow is going to fuck you later on _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Goach2 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2017 Posts: 518 Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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Ya, the edge of the panel may encroach into the channel a little, is that so bad? _________________ 1977 FI Westfalia |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16803 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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if you want your slider to rub when you open it, or the seal not sit properly.
you may get away with tapping it flat. door gaps suck on a good day, let alone going into it with a know issue.
I would tack the new panel in and set the slider to verify gaps. sucks to do, but this is what it takes to make it right _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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orwell84 Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007 Posts: 2528 Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
if you want your slider to rub when you open it, or the seal not sit properly.
you may get away with tapping it flat. door gaps suck on a good day, let alone going into it with a know issue.
I would tack the new panel in and set the slider to verify gaps. sucks to do, but this is what it takes to make it right |
You mean where the seal channel bows toward the door opening? It looks like it could be tapped straight. Don't laugh, but I use a dremel cut off blade on a flex shaft as well as those little grinding stones to make adjustments on those piddly kinds of things that always seem to need some. I went through the opening and closing, shim this, adjust that thing before welding up my new door track....all part of the fun.
You should be able to tweak it somehow. |
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Goach2 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2017 Posts: 518 Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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Yes, the channel is bent into the door a bit, just from installation. I will straighter it out as good as I can when done.
I'm also going to be pulling the trigger on some gas. I think I'm going with a 60cf argon mix tank. I am hopeful that that size will meet my needs.
So, with gas, should I still be sticking with the .030" non-flux wire size for body panels? _________________ 1977 FI Westfalia |
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advCo Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2017 Posts: 373 Location: Houston, TX
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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Goach2 wrote: |
Yes, the channel is bent into the door a bit, just from installation. I will straighter it out as good as I can when done.
I'm also going to be pulling the trigger on some gas. I think I'm going with a 60cf argon mix tank. I am hopeful that that size will meet my needs.
So, with gas, should I still be sticking with the .030" non-flux wire size for body panels? |
.023 wire is your friend for sheet metal. _________________ "He pulled the mirrors off his Cadillac ‘cause he doesn’t like it looking like he looks back"
'68/'70 Ghia Coupe Project
'70 Westy Project - Champagne I Wannabe
A bunch of vintage Japanese motorcycles
"Much ingenuity with a little money is vastly more profitable and amusing than much money without ingenuity." -A. Bennett |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16803 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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yes, 023 is fine. I use a argon/co2 mix for MIG _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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advCo Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2017 Posts: 373 Location: Houston, TX
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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+1 on the argon/co2. I recommend AirGas or similar supplier as you pay a deposit on the bottle up front, then its cheap to refill it every time after.
60CF might be a bit small if you have a lot of welding to do. I use a 125 CF tank and it lasts a long time. I can't remember the up front cost w/bottle deposit but to fill it (they swap it out for a new tank) its around $80 _________________ "He pulled the mirrors off his Cadillac ‘cause he doesn’t like it looking like he looks back"
'68/'70 Ghia Coupe Project
'70 Westy Project - Champagne I Wannabe
A bunch of vintage Japanese motorcycles
"Much ingenuity with a little money is vastly more profitable and amusing than much money without ingenuity." -A. Bennett |
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orwell84 Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007 Posts: 2528 Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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Better to go big on the tank if you can. You can get by with a smaller one but it ends up being more convenient in the long run. I run the big spoils of wire for the same reason.
Good choice to go with gas at this point for the exterior panels. You will be able to do easier cleaner welds. You will have to dial in your machine again but it’s good practice to do a couple test welds on some scrap just to make sure all is well. |
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Goach2 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2017 Posts: 518 Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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Ok, I have to clean up inside the body at this point, but I'm also ready to start planning the panel placement.
Here's what I'm thinking;
1 - On the door-side of the panel, I will be trimming the replacement panel and welding in the bottom-left side of the U-channel. If this doesn't work well, I may try and take the channel off and then put it on the panel.
2 - Along the top, I will put a flange across the bottom of the existing panel and I won't punch the top of the new panel, but will weld along the seam and seal it that way.
3 - On both sides of the top of the panel, I won't put a flange on the last 3-4 inches of both ends, but will butt-weld these instead.
4 - The big question that I have right now is how to go about attaching this panel to the corner. I would love to leave the seam in place and just butt-weld, or even flange the new panel in place, however the corner is bad, and will have to be replaced anyway.
You can see how much bondo was put here, which is the same area that the panel had bondo too. I can feel some flat spots along the seam, but (as a novice) is it better to put a little filler in these areas, or just cut the whole corner and seam out and fit the new one? _________________ 1977 FI Westfalia |
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orwell84 Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007 Posts: 2528 Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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In your photos it doesn't look that bad but photos can be misleading. Ideally you would straighten it as much as possible and weld to it. You will be filling that area anyway. You would at least want the edges to be straight so the panel and the original metal line up. If you cut that bottom section out, the problem would be getting behind the panel to weld them together I assume you are going to remove and treat the rust on the inside panel. Not to discourage you, but you may find that you have some more patching to do one the inside.
Keep plugging away. When you get through this repair, you will find that the other work you do are just variations of the same basic issues |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16803 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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again, you're pissing in the wind. strip that paint off and see what lurks under it. it may be better or worse depending what you find. _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Goach2 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2017 Posts: 518 Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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Hi orwell84, are you referring to the seam not looking too bad? I would agree, it's not terrible. What do you think about a flange on the straight part of the seam and then butt-weld where it curves?
You're right about the inner fenders needing some work, I decided to do some patching on the front side. I won't even bother with the pics in the middle of it, as it was horrible. Three hours because I kept burning through thin areas...
_________________ 1977 FI Westfalia |
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orwell84 Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007 Posts: 2528 Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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I wouldn't flange any of the vertical seams. They have a very slight curve and putting a flange in it will tend to flatten it. I am currently fighting an old repair on the front quarter panel of that section where I did a flanged weld. It needs to be stretched out along the weld seam, but I can't because of the flange.
You will be fighting that flatness across the panel. Practice some butt welding on some scrap with different size gaps. It's not that much harder. Flanging only really makes sense where the panel is dead flat. Those big panels had some subtle curves that were stamped in as well as curves and whips that were the result of how they got spot welded together. VW braced them where they needed to keep its shape.
You should really clear the entire panel down to bare steel, all the way up to the belt line and from seam to seam. You want to straighten the surrounding metal as much as possible before welding in new.You will have to do it anyway. |
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Goach2 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2017 Posts: 518 Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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Question about changing over to gas on a Lincoln Mig Pak 10. I know the polarity has to be reversed and the gas nozzle swapped on. I picked up a tip to match the smaller wire, but is there a gas and gasless tip? Or are all tips the same, except for sizes? _________________ 1977 FI Westfalia |
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VWsArent4Hippies Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005 Posts: 3076 Location: The Bull City
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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Goach2 wrote: |
Question about changing over to gas on a Lincoln Mig Pak 10. I know the polarity has to be reversed and the gas nozzle swapped on. I picked up a tip to match the smaller wire, but is there a gas and gasless tip? Or are all tips the same, except for sizes? |
Tips are the same for either. Like you said, just match the size to the wire you're using. Also make sure the drive roller matches the wire as well. This is the roller that acts as a tensioner right after the wire comes off of the spool _________________
aeromech wrote: |
in my opinion you don't know shit |
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Goach2 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2017 Posts: 518 Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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My Dad's been dying to come by and practice his welding too, so we put the piece of the floor back in:
Oh, and my son was helping too
Question, in the back corner, behind the c-pillar, should there be a hole for draining water?
_________________ 1977 FI Westfalia |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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Goach2 wrote: |
Oh, and my son was helping too |
Hahahaha!, looks all too familiar, at least he's making an appearance, you never know when one day he may show more interest, they are soaking up stuff even if they don't act like it.
As for the drain?, yes, every panel and cavity has a hole of some sort, remember these things took a bath in primer/sealer before reaching the paint department, it had to drain back out somehow. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Goach2 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2017 Posts: 518 Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey... |
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Looking for a little advice on this side of the inner fender. It's quite detailed in it's shape. Best to cut out more? Or small sections of it at a time?
_________________ 1977 FI Westfalia |
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