Any good Sound deadening material that doesn't damage paint?

[raygreenwood]

So...if I were to have a conversation with my client/friend...about making some shaped...ready to use sound dampening products....the type you install with clips or wires and not adhesives....like the modern sound deadeners I have been speaking about in this thread.......can you guys point to where on a bus you would want these...and teh approximate size or shape?

His company is a twin company. One division is industrial printing....I mean printing of anything and everything....plastics, glass, there dimensional objects...metals...you name it...they print it. I do specialized training and problem solving for this division by contract.

The other division run by his partner...is the automotive component division. At one time his partner was the primary manager of the print division and took over the automotive section. Technically she really manages both at some level.

I need to talk to her this week about general unrelated projects....but...if I were to bring this project up...bus specific ACVW sound insulating panels...both of their ears would perk right up.

I would like to be able to interest them in this...and within a reasonable amount of time....show them some basic schematics of where the parts would go and general dimensions.

If as a group...aside from roll goods that people could cut up to use wherever....if there could be a consensus of a few parts to start with...I would probably then like to introduce by e-mail and phone ...one or two really bus centric people from here....who could help guide the process.

Maybe even someone who lives close by...like New York....or even in Ontario...or Canada in general....a few come to mind...cough***cough*** Busdaddy...cough....

I am suggesting non-custom products that fit the most buses in the same places...maybe like underlay mats over the engine compartment or side mats in that same cargo space...or even inside of engine compartment mats, maybe an under headliner mat, or side wall mats...or mats cut to shape for the inside of door panels. The type 4 cars had every inch of the engine bay covered in factory versions of this same type of sound deadener held in by only plastic Christmas tree clips....very modern for 1968 through 1974.

Something to think about. I do not know if I can get these people on the phone this week. we have been playing telephone tag for three weeks. I have a 2-day workshop in San Jose this week and crazy travel on Thursday/Friday...so no rush.

But of all of the odd suggestions I have given from the industries I frequent....these guys make product that are a dead fit for what is being asked for here. It would be nice to make it happen.

An no...I will not post the name of my client here until I discuss it with them first and ask if its OK and of they are up for the conversation. I have many customers whose NDA's are so tight...I am not even allowed to say I do business with them. Ray

[Mispeld]

I have avoided using any type of real sound barrier on my classics over the years because 1. I don't want the mess or create a mess for the next owner and 2. I don't know enough about them (more so after after Rays post)! Most modifications I do i try to make them easily reversed. I would love to have sound panels available to drop in without a mess and much guesswork.

I'm sure there will be hundreds of opinions but the basics would be great. Front headliner, floors, doors, and walls.

I've considered pulling out insulation from minivans from the junkyard and seeing what I could come up with. I just need ambition though.
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Tom
1977 Westy. 2.0 Fuel Injected.

[vwwestyman]

Ray, I keep thinking about your comments about having someone make some "factory style" sound deadeners.

I have been researching again some sound deadening I could do in my TDI Bus while the engine/trans is out, and think these kinds of options would be fantastic! I'm kind of tired of throwing money at stuff that sort of works.

So generally, my thoughts on what type of panes would be good would be to follow along the lines of what car manufacturers do. I.e. inside the door and body panel cavities, "roof" of engine compartment, maybe over/around wheel wells/front seat stands.

The idea of poking around in salvage yards isn't half-bad, for the time being.
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Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[skills@eurocarsplus]

what I have found is you can only make an old bus so quiet. the hot ticket is that thick foam that is attached to carpets in modern cars. it's very thick, very dense almost memory foam like. it absorbs many different frequencies.

dynamat and similar products do well for sure, but not even in the same league as that thick foam.

I am happy with fatmat in the engine bay, gas tank cavity and firewall. it makes a noticeable difference for sure.

also your interior makes a big difference too. my deluxe is quieter than my westy. deluxe has a thick cargo mat, padded interior panels, headliner etc where the westy has wood everywhere. 2 different animals even though they are insulated the same way
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[advCo]

Years ago we used jute under the carpeting and some upholstery when I was doing the interior on our '64 Beetle. It had little or no effect on the amount of engine/road noise in the car. I never drove it before the interior went in, but its pretty darn loud.

If anyone is still interested in going the magnet route, I have a pack of approx 10"H x 28" magnetic sheets I bought for a project that didn't pan out (I do commercial signage and vinyl graphics). The pack of magnetic sheets have been sitting in a closet for years.

So if anyone wants to try it out I'll offer them for free, just pay for the ride.
_________________
"He pulled the mirrors off his Cadillac ‘cause he doesn’t like it looking like he looks back"
'68/'70 Ghia Coupe Project
'70 Westy Project - Champagne I Wannabe
A bunch of vintage Japanese motorcycles
"Much ingenuity with a little money is vastly more profitable and amusing than much money without ingenuity." -A. Bennett

[notchboy]

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[vwwestyman]

I think Jason meant "double-bond." I googled mono-bond and found some kind of glue. But added carpet pad to the search and found this:

http://www.proflex.us/wordpress/products/rubber-cork-underlayments/db-250-double-bond-carpet-pad/

Sounds interesting.

I've got the engine and trans out of the '78, and need to pull the fuel tank to fix a pinhole in one of the fuel tank outlets.

While it's out, I'm thinking I will fill the cavities with hydrophobic melamine foam.

https://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/products/hydrophobic-melamine-foam-hmf

I'm considering other things, such as making a couple mats out of mass-loaded vinyl. One to cover the firewall inside the bus which would be held in place by the back seat and velcro, and then another mat that would go under the rear cushion and overlap it a bit to help block more noise from the engine.
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[notchboy]

[wcfvw69]

I did what Skills did in my engine compartment in my 70' bus. I stuck sound deadener in the fuel tank area when I last had the tank out. I forgot to stick some on the fuel tank panel back side though! Next time I have the engine out, I will put some on it.
I also stuck the same sound deadener above the engine compartment with the tar boards out. The tar boards were pretty much shot or missing. I have those cavities open and want to put something up there to see if it would quite it down further. I know VW used some kind of pads up there in the later 70's.

I saw a product called Rock wool. It's suppose to be very effective. Has anyone tried it? https://www.amazon.com/Rockwool-Acoustic-Mineral-I...&psc=1

I may try it in those cavities to see what it does.

I also agree that the interior makes a big difference in absorbing the noise. I have my Westfalia interior out of my bus so it's a shell in the back. If VW had any tar board strips in the interior over the engine compartment, they are missing in my bus. It's noticably louder driving the bus. I plan to apply more sound deadener before reinstalling the cabinets.
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Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
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[Hoody]

My criteria for choosing a sound deadener was to find the absolute best product on the market. I had done a previous classic car in dynamat. Which is more expensive and less effective than the product that I chose. I would strongly discourage people from using the cheap shit from Home Depot. The asphalt based crap will not stay in place for very long on a vertical or overhead area. And it will outgas like a mother f@“:/-!!! For me it’s important that myself and my friends are not breathing that crap in after the Bus has been sitting in the sun all day. Where most people make a mistake is the amount needed to work effectively. You only need to put a square in the center of a panel that equals somewhere around 25% of the total surface area. Anymore is just flushing money down the toilet. They want to sell you as much as possible so they will tell you to cover the entire panel which is complete BS. It only becomes a mess if you choose a product that will not adhere after time and heat. Removing it is a major pita. But there is no need to do so if you do it properly. The other critical error that a lot of people make is completely covering the floor and walls not taking into account the drainage built into the bodies on these Buses. If you have ever gutted an interior and looked really closely what the engineers did with how they purposely put “lanes” for condensation to drain and pool in certain places. They also placed rubber plugs in many of these areas so that you could pull the plugs and let the water drain. If you just blanket the floor with sound deadener you just removed all the ability for condensation to properly drain. Personally I would not use anything that can absorb moisture. I used Second Skin Audios top of the line foil backed butyl sound deadener. It won the sound deadener shoot out years ago. Thickest, best adhesion, best sound deadening properties. For insulation I used Low-E foil backed foam. I only used the magnetic sheets where I wanted to be able to remove the sound deadener easily. On the inside rear wheel wells, in the engine compartment on the rear wheel wells, on the inside of the front nose under the head lights where the original styrofoam was placed. There are different magnetic strengths. I used the size that is used for signs on a vehicle. I just went to a place that makes the signs and asked them if they had “remnants”. If anyone wants to see my method and placement of the sound deadener PM me with your email and I will forward the pics. I still not have taken the time to figure out how to post pics on here. I am not saying that my way is right and that other’s methods and products that they chose are wrong. After A LOT of research this is what I decided was best for me. Hope this helps.

[Hoody]

FWI rockwool is just about the most moisture absorbent material ever invented. It’s used exclusively when growing things hydroponically. Which is why you can grow a fully mature plant with a cube of rockwool that isn’t much bigger than a rubicks cube. Ray gave a great break down of what is used in modern “cars”.....however what we all drive are not cars. We sleep, hang out, camp for days on end in them. All of this produces condensation aka moisture which is a serious enemy. Forget about rust.....mildew and mold can and will wreak serious havoc to your health. You won’t ever get the chance to experience rust if your health prohibits you from spending extended time in your dream. So please do lots of reading before choosing your method and products that you implement. Obviously this all depends on the climate and weather conditions that you experience. My advice is to plan for any climate or weather condition. There is a reason we all have purchased a “House on Wheels”. The dream is to take it everywhere and anywhere.

[Hikelite]

@Bill

I agree with Hoody. Avoid the rockwool.

I have experience with it as a growing medium. It is intended to absorb moisture and hold it for roots to use.
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~Kevin

My 1968 Campmobile

[notchboy]