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tristessa
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3992
Location: Portland, OR
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 Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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Hydraulic clutch wasn't particularly difficult, I could send pics of how I did mine if you want to PM me a phone number or email address.
Rather than trying to deal with the offset rod, I went to cable shifting with my Passat box. Also wasn't particularly difficult, but I was able to swipe the basic design at the transmission end from the Boxster. |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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How about the clearance issue?
Paul, who has participated in this thread a little bit, was working on the Passat gearbox, but I think decided against it due to the compromised ground clearance, or severe CV angles.
(Though after reading of the most recent happenings, perhaps he will rethink that!)
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16883
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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have you reached out to matt steedle or benco?
I have been using them exclusively for my transmission needs. I have 3 benco boxes getting abused and 1 steedle without issue.
no doubt about it, these were designed for <100 hp/tq from the get go so adding stress will ultimately lead to early failure. even the drag guys get them "freshened up" every season (obviously, we aren't drag racing here)
collectively we have over 100k and counting on all of these transmissions I have used from matt and ben. in the back of my mind I would be happy with a 100-120k service life out of them....WITH yearly gear oil changes
next option for 100% bulletproof is a mendeola...that would outlast the bus in terms of what we do/our expectations.
even the subarugears has it's limits and blows shit up when supercharged.
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
have you reached out to matt steedle or benco?
I have been using them exclusively for my transmission needs. I have 3 benco boxes getting abused and 1 steedle without issue.
no doubt about it, these were designed for <100 hp/tq from the get go so adding stress will ultimately lead to early failure. even the drag guys get them "freshened up" every season (obviously, we aren't drag racing here)
collectively we have over 100k and counting on all of these transmissions I have used from matt and ben. in the back of my mind I would be happy with a 100-120k service life out of them....WITH yearly gear oil changes
next option for 100% bulletproof is a mendeola...that would outlast the bus in terms of what we do/our expectations.
even the subarugears has it's limits and blows shit up when supercharged. |
Been talking to Gears via email... He has some ideas on things to help. I may send it to him to tear down and then decide how to proceed from here.
Long story short, he says that the TDIs just beat up these gearboxes. The Subarus and other gas motors are just less abusive to them.
Markd89's experience seems to speak to this a bit, too.
I'm wondering if the few other's over here who've done TDIs don't drive them much, or just didn't post when their transaxles grenaded! ha ha
Anyway, Gears would really like to see the insides of this thing, so I'm thinking I will probably send it his direction if I ever the cooperation of time and weather to pull it.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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tristessa
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3992
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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| vwwestyman wrote: |
| decided against it due to the compromised ground clearance, or severe CV angles. |
Yeah, there is that. 930 CV's would help things survive with the angles, but still not ideal. Not sure how much ground clearance loss there would be with flipped vs. regular positioning either .. never looked into it very much once I saw the CV angles. |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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| tristessa wrote: |
| vwwestyman wrote: |
| decided against it due to the compromised ground clearance, or severe CV angles. |
Yeah, there is that. 930 CV's would help things survive with the angles, but still not ideal. Not sure how much ground clearance loss there would be with flipped vs. regular positioning either .. never looked into it very much once I saw the CV angles. |
I've looked at a few pics in threads again today, and it must be that the flanges end up several inches higher. In one thread, you can see that that the guy had to mount the engine quite a bit lower to not kill the CVs.
I was hoping someone had come up with some sort of solution for this issue, but I cannot find anything yet, unfortunately.
I saw a mention somewhere of someone working on a reverse TDI, but flinteuropean.com is currently down.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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tristessa
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3992
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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Looking at the extra 012 trans sitting in the carport and seeing where the axle flanges are relative to the input shaft, I can see where the inches that cause the CV angles are coming from. Wouldn't be as big a deal in a lowered vehicle or with a lowered drivetrain, but if you're trying to keep ground clearance .. es no bueno.
Biggest obstacle I can think of with reversing the diesel would be the cam. Have to be a custom grind, which would mean finding a blank with enough material to have the lobes where you want. Pistons I'd leave alone -- you'd get a little more slap with the pin offset being what it is, but wouldn't have to muck around with custom pistons or recreating the chambering/pockets in the crown. Use gasser parts to correct the oil pump drive, and a right-handed smokeshifter in the exhaust manifolds to make sure the turbo still spins the right way.  |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:12 am Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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| tristessa wrote: |
Looking at the extra 012 trans sitting in the carport and seeing where the axle flanges are relative to the input shaft, I can see where the inches that cause the CV angles are coming from. Wouldn't be as big a deal in a lowered vehicle or with a lowered drivetrain, but if you're trying to keep ground clearance .. es no bueno.
Biggest obstacle I can think of with reversing the diesel would be the cam. Have to be a custom grind, which would mean finding a blank with enough material to have the lobes where you want. Pistons I'd leave alone -- you'd get a little more slap with the pin offset being what it is, but wouldn't have to muck around with custom pistons or recreating the chambering/pockets in the crown. Use gasser parts to correct the oil pump drive, and a right-handed smokeshifter in the exhaust manifolds to make sure the turbo still spins the right way. |
Yeah, if someone came up with some CV solution to be able to tuck the engine/trans back up, I think I would go with this option in a heartbeat.
But as you can see in this thread:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8105319#8105319
To make the CVs workable, the guy had to lower his engine considerably.
If I don't go with a Subaru whenever the '73's engine finally craps out, I will probably look a lot more at the reversed 1.8T and it's transmission.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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markd89
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2005
Posts: 657
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:54 am Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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| vwwestyman wrote: |
Been talking to Gears via email... He has some ideas on things to help. I may send it to him to tear down and then decide how to proceed from here.
...
Markd89's experience seems to speak to this a bit, too.
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I think working with gears is a good idea. I was pm-ing with him during the last dilemma.
My trans had not broken - all of the gears were OK. The rebuilder had neglected to change a bearing the first time around and as a result there was an unsettling noise as the two gear shafts could move in and out of beiong fully engaged.
My trans has a new R&P (stock) and 3rd and 4th weddle gears. I also have the 4 spider gear differential, but I think that was superfluous. I'm at about 60K total miles now (over both transaxles).
AFAIK, the Vanagon 094 is the same as the 091 with the exception of an improved reverse gear. I think there are a few Vanagon TDI's ergo the 091 should be ok.
But yeah, if I had to do it again, I'd do something else. I'd even think about the mid-engine with stock TDI trans option. Lots of welding,
Mine is running well with the exception of high oil usage. I'm deciding on rebuilding...
Good luck!
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78 TDI Sunroof Bus
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:29 am Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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Yup, the transaxle is currently sitting at German Transaxle's place, waiting for Gears to tear it down-I saw it was delivered on Wednesday. I was thinking he said he'd probably get started on it today or tomorrow. I'm anxiously waiting to hear what he finds.
I'm more or less planning to go with whatever he recommends to make this damn thing last this time around! I am hoping that some of the expensive parts I threw at it last time, such as the Ring and Pinion and Super Diff survived. I only limped the bus along a few miles after 4th gear started whining, and no big chunks (though a lot of swarf and couple very small chunks) came out when I drained the oil.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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Got a call from German Transaxle today. Transmission is rebuilt and ready to go. She just needed to get a couple different shipping quotes so I can decide how it'll get back to me.
This time around, I've used Paul/Gears' heavy duty third and fourth gears. They are just slightly less tall which will increase the RPMs a little, which should help a bit with lasting. Also this time I used a new aluminum gear housing, which is supposed to be less prone to letting things come loose.
I also had them machine in bosses to add a later oil circulation system to add a filter and cooler at some point in the future.
There is a lot of discussion in this thread including some carnage pics of the insides of my transmission.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=712958
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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webwalker 
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006
Posts: 2803
Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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I've been dead for a few years and am just crawling back out of the crypt.
Good to see that you got a running radiator configuration combining the best of what Skills, myself and many others have come up with. Hopefully, I'll have my own beast on the road before I die.
Great work and sticking to it!
webwalker
_________________
"Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .82 4th
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:58 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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Ha, thanks for checking in!
The transmission should arrive on Tuesday. But I don't know when I'll be able to install the thing! I need to pull the fuel tank to address a small leak at one (or maybe both?) of the outlets. Also want to install some different sound absorbing materials in the spaces around the fuel tank.
But I have not had any nice weather since the weekend I pulled the transmission out. We've had lots of snow this winter and no reprieve, save for the one weekend I was out of town.
At this point, I'm sort of hoping to be able to get a good bit of work done the week after the wedding (two weeks from now!!) I took the week following the wedding off work but she just started a new job and since we're not honeymooning until May, she has to go back to work on Tuesday. So if it actually warms up a little, I'll have some time to work.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:54 am Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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Guess what came this week!
I have the day off of work so I was originally thinking I would try to spend it working on the Bus.
But with my wedding being next Saturday and being in grad school, I have (somewhat grudgingly) decided that it would probably be better for me to spend a good chunk of the day making sure that all or nearly all of my school work that is due next week (including more than one mid-term type paper) is all caught up as early/in advance as possible. I may get out there a little bit this afternoon if it warms up; we'll see.
But because the honeymoon isn't until May, spring break is the week following the wedding, and she has to work that following week while I don't, I'm hoping that I will be able to knock out at least some of the install/prep stuff then.
Anyway, here are the pics! I like how they didn't paint the new, fancy aluminum gear housing part.
And here is the spec sheet:
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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panel
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2001
Posts: 1091
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16883
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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| panel wrote: |
| No warranty ? |
how can someone warranty a 40 year old regurgitated pile of shit running 4x the torque and horsepower thru it?
not saying it is a pile of shit, but lets be real...these have issues in stock form. I don't mean that he got a bad unit there but I can see why the builder won't warranty it. it's like asking to get a warranty on a dragster transmission. only so much can be done to these to be "new" no matter what, lots of stuff is good used in these rebuilds
these transmissions are and always will be the weak link in the conversion world....no 2 ways about it. and I am moderately unimpressed by the reversed rotation Subaru boxes as well due to the fact you're running on the coast side of the r+p.
hopefully this one will last. pulses on a diesel are HARD on transmissions and often use a DMF flywheel to help out.
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:10 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| panel wrote: |
| No warranty ? |
how can someone warranty a 40 year old regurgitated pile of shit running 4x the torque and horsepower thru it?
not saying it is a pile of shit, but lets be real...these have issues in stock form. I don't mean that he got a bad unit there but I can see why the builder won't warranty it. it's like asking to get a warranty on a dragster transmission. only so much can be done to these to be "new" no matter what, lots of stuff is good used in these rebuilds
these transmissions are and always will be the weak link in the conversion world....no 2 ways about it. and I am moderately unimpressed by the reversed rotation Subaru boxes as well due to the fact you're running on the coast side of the r+p.
hopefully this one will last. pulses on a diesel are HARD on transmissions and often use a DMF flywheel to help out. |
Yeah, I hope so too! ha ha
Paul (of the "Heavy Duty Guard Transaxle" gears) feels that the aluminum gear housing will help hold the main shaft bearing in place better, and his gears are supposed to be able to hake the beating a little bit better.
Additionally, I'll have to learn to drive a little higher up in the RPMs which should help.
Finally, I do have a Dual Mass Flywheel sitting in the garage to play with. I'm not sure if it'll work out or not, but I'm hopeful.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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KMT
Samba Member
Joined: February 04, 2003
Posts: 223
Location: Arden, NC
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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I am watching this thread hoping I can get a better idea as to what I am in for to convert my '78 into a TDI. I have bought a kit with a flipped Audi trans and am concerned to the ground clearance.
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Jamie Auch
The Kooky MathTeacher
'68 Panel
'78 Champagne Edition Westfalia
'89 Blue Star
‘90 Hightop TDI Vanagon
'90 AFN TDI Leisuredrive hightop
http://www.highcountrybusfestival.com
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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Well good golly, I didn't realize it has been so long since I've updated this thread!
Stuart came down for the wedding, was super helpful in helping get little things here and there taken care of, then took off to Tulsa to see some other Samba-ers.
Then came back a couple days later after our short stay away to help me install the trans!
So we got that in back in March. I've been driving the Bus here and there since then, but due to grad school classes haven't been able to spend nearly as much time as I"d have liked to get things ready for the trip--we're leaving on Wednesday!
At some point I read some posts by Colin and Skills talking about the importance of having the hockey stick lined up nicely to the shift rod tube to avoid rattling and buzzing and all that. Up until that point, I guess I had figured the coupler worked as a bit of a U-joint and didn't make this much of an issue. But I can see that my gearbox is tipped a bit (rear end a bit high) so I've got plans on how I can add a little adjustment into my engine hangars to make it even out a little bit. I'm hoping that will be enough to level out the trans a bit and make the shifter play a little more nicely.
But today I got the oil and filters changed in the engine and trans, and later this evening cut out some insulation panels for the pop top. We'll be in Colorado and I'm thinking there is a good chance we'll have some cold weather! That'll help the Espar work a little better.
They're just three panels of Reflectex that are cut to kind of pressure fit and also be held in place by the support bars and mattress. I think they should easily fold up in the space behind the bed when it's folded back, under the pop top.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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