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Bajabugn Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2019 Posts: 2 Location: Wi
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:52 am Post subject: What happened to factory dies/tools after production ended? |
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Hi.So when DeLorean folded up I read the heavy stamping/dies etc were used as weight for fishing nets in the North Sea.Has anyone heard of a private individual buying any dies/fixtures..ANYTHING from when all manufacturing plants closed? Even Honda sold their tooling to Chinese companies now reproducing the ct70 engines. Some of the new castings have the "hm-wing) logo.really curious! Thanks! |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26306 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:55 am Post subject: Re: What happened to factory dies/tools after production ended? |
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I think VW often shifted production line bits to factories in other countries. For instance, Brazil made the smaller pre-65 window bugs long after Germany changed. _________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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typ914 Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2012 Posts: 230 Location: Atlanta, Ga
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:19 am Post subject: Re: What happened to factory dies/tools after production ended? |
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When Delorean folded the dies and equipment was stored as the govt was holding the note for most of it. This is an unusual case however. The Delorean dies were eventually sold to a guy in Texas(i think) and has been attempting to make parts and cars. Most factories scrap their old dies as they are no longer needed. Most don't resell them for liability reasons. I don't believe the stories about VW shipping old dies to other markets because the dies would be worn out and produce a lower quality product. I am sure there are cases where they did this to some extent. You have to remember car manufactuers are in business to sell new cars not keep old ones operable. |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33991 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:58 am Post subject: Re: What happened to factory dies/tools after production ended? |
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With tooling being expensive, and with production shifting to Mexico and Brazil, and elsewhere in Germany, the heavy equipment, and the tooling that does not wear out, were probably shipped. Dies were constantly replaced anyway and so they probably just made new ones for the new factories.
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:39 am Post subject: Re: What happened to factory dies/tools after production ended? |
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I dont think honda sold any thing to china. I was in tiwan in the early 70's. the motor cycles were the same as the japan motor cycles but diferent names on them, kawatwang,songyang and some others.I even bought replacement parts for my honda 125 dirt bike for the china made version of the same one. same thing just made in china.less than half price. they just knocked everything off...like they still doo. I had a ct 70 and a st50 also both of witch were also made in china versions...long before honda stoped making them. cheeper to copy than buy old molds. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12699 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:59 am Post subject: Re: What happened to factory dies/tools after production ended? |
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In the mid '60s GM produced an aluminum 215 ci/215 hp V8 engine that was pretty cool for the day but the American public wanted big engines. GM sold all the tooling to Rover of England and that I understand is where the Rover V8 came from. |
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APPLEGREENVW Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2003 Posts: 2387 Location: Seekonk,Massachusetts USA
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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: What happened to factory dies/tools after production ended? |
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It would cool to see someone build a stainless steel vw beetle body. I have a feeling all those factory dies/tools are still around hiding somewhere. _________________ Parts for sale https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=APPLEGREENVW
02/76 Beetle sedan |
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coad Samba Scapegoat
Joined: September 12, 2002 Posts: 7552
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:12 am Post subject: Re: What happened to factory dies/tools after production ended? |
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There's an antique microcar club in Germany where the members all needed a special size tire that hasn't been made since the 70's. The club started bugging Continental, and for years Continental kept telling them that the molds were destroyed back in the 70's and the only production line capable of making tires that small was sold to India 30 years ago so what they were asking for was quite impossible, so please stop bothering us about it.
Finally some club member got to know a member of Continental's Board of Directors and started bugging him about it. After a couple more years they got a call from Continental telling them that if they promised to never, ever, ask again 200 tires would be waiting for pickup in a month. When they got them the brand new tires were identical to the 70's production, right down to some minor flaws from wear to the molds. |
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APPLEGREENVW Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2003 Posts: 2387 Location: Seekonk,Massachusetts USA
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:26 am Post subject: Re: What happened to factory dies/tools after production ended? |
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coad wrote: |
There's an antique microcar club in Germany where the members all needed a special size tire that hasn't been made since the 70's. The club started bugging Continental, and for years Continental kept telling them that the molds were destroyed back in the 70's and the only production line capable of making tires that small was sold to India 30 years ago so what they were asking for was quite impossible, so please stop bothering us about it.
Finally some club member got to know a member of Continental's Board of Directors and started bugging him about it. After a couple more years they got a call from Continental telling them that if they promised to never, ever, ask again 200 tires would be waiting for pickup in a month. When they got them the brand new tires were identical to the 70's production, right down to some minor flaws from wear to the molds. |
Great story. _________________ Parts for sale https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=APPLEGREENVW
02/76 Beetle sedan |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: What happened to factory dies/tools after production ended? |
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oprn wrote: |
In the mid '60s GM produced an aluminum 215 ci/215 hp V8 engine that was pretty cool for the day but the American public wanted big engines. GM sold all the tooling to Rover of England and that I understand is where the Rover V8 came from. |
I still have one of those engines I had 2 of them, 2 slightly different versions, 1 buick and one oldsmobile.they had different heads combustion chambers(fully machined), diferent rocker arms and diferent amount of cylinder head bolts.... why the basic same engine was so different from buick to olds was ...kinda stupid... it also has turbo charged version. the triumph tr8(tr7 with v had these engines in them too. many people have raced them and there are quite a few in buggys&rails. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12699 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: What happened to factory dies/tools after production ended? |
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I had no idea there were different versions or even a factory turboed one! These engines seemed to be US production only. The only ones to make it to Canada were imported from the south by someone here. They were very popular at one time for engine swaps into VWs, MGs, and the Vega/Astra cars. They were 50 pounds lighter than the original Vega 4 banger. I looked for one years ago but never did find one. |
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outcaststudios Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015 Posts: 1732 Location: Maine
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: What happened to factory dies/tools after production ended? |
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i could remake any casting tooling to produce aluminum or iron castings. but as stated earalier that kind of tooling can cost thousands of dollars to make. just the tooling to make a simple casting is thousands... _________________ '88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2573791 |
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ach60 Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2001 Posts: 4139 Location: Santa Maria
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:17 am Post subject: Re: What happened to factory dies/tools after production ended? |
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What happened to factory dies/tools after production ends?
Depends on the tooling and it's useful life, and the end product's life.
VW Rabbit tooling went to South Africa
VW Passat tooling went to South Africa & China depending on the version.
You'll see lots of former products being sold in "developing markets" that were sold in the US or Europe 10-20 years ago.
Machine Tools, Presses, and such are sold and resold many times before they are more valuable as scrap than a tool.
Dies are made to be used, reworked, and used some more, and ,and then cut down, and recut for smaller dies.
The first place I worked never threw anything away, they had a crankshaft on a 20? ton press break in half at the flywheel.
They had the crankshaft re-welded, and put the press back in service in 2 weeks _________________ Good Luck
Al |
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Slow 1200 Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2004 Posts: 2105
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:35 am Post subject: Re: What happened to factory dies/tools after production ended? |
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my understanding was that in the early 90s mexico got new dies because the old ones were worn out
the question is where did this tooling go after 2003 |
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NJ John Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2007 Posts: 2218 Location: HdG, MD & NJ
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:38 am Post subject: Re: What happened to factory dies/tools after production ended? |
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New dies or old dies, I'm just surprised that China hasn't copied a bug, bus or ghia by now. There was a thread on here about about China bootleg Mini, BMW and others. They all have a legal department. I don't VW's is any scarier than the others. _________________ 1973 standard, yellow, lowered, 3” narrowed front, 1600 blo-thru turbo w/single dell 15.4@86, so far
11.41 et buggy. Long gone
Let’s go O’s! Let’s go O’s!
https://www.youtube.com/@AirSpooledGarage |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:10 pm Post subject: Re: What happened to factory dies/tools after production ended? |
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oprn wrote: |
I had no idea there were different versions or even a factory turboed one! These engines seemed to be US production only. The only ones to make it to Canada were imported from the south by someone here. They were very popular at one time for engine swaps into VWs, MGs, and the Vega/Astra cars. They were 50 pounds lighter than the original Vega 4 banger. I looked for one years ago but never did find one. |
it's laying in the shed in pieces...I bored the block but never got any farther. I already had tomany other things so...it got sidelined. |
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Antonio Trejo VW Parts Dealer
Joined: December 17, 2003 Posts: 937 Location: Mexico City
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