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Hahnster Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 20
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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:16 pm Post subject: Porsche 911 motor in ghia |
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Let me start with I’m not looking for pros and cons. Just trying to find out if anyone has any experience installing an air cooled 911 engine in a Karmann Ghia. I know it would be cheaper to get similar performance out of a type 1 or 4 engine. Looking for the novelty of having a 911 engine. Thank you for the help. |
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andreas5bmw Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2004 Posts: 63
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sputnick60 Samba Moderator
Joined: July 22, 2007 Posts: 3907 Location: In Molinya Orbit
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:43 am Post subject: Re: Porsche 911 motor in ghia |
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Also check out the gallery. Do a search for the key words "Porsche" "Engine" and a fair few come up. Some of them in the back of Ghias.... like this one..
Rome wrote: |
While attending the Bug-Out VW meet in Manassas, VA in May 1985 (possible already in '84) I saw this remarkable '69 Ghia coupe. I remember it slowly driving towards me in the car show access road, making a clean appearance. Sprint Stars, removed rear fender reflectors; no quarter windows; and slightly rolled rear wheelwells. But the engine sound- wow- a very clean installation of a 911 engine. Note the original engine latch relocated to the upper left using a bracket, the custom rera engine cross-support, the wide-exit dual exhaust tips, the engine lid air scoop. I remember that the engine lid closed fully, making this an effective "sleeper".
In the front shot, that's my friend Michael W with the white shirt to the right. He went on to buy and manage the VW/Porsche/Audi dealer Autohaus of Harrisburg in Pennsylvania in the '90's. |
the early 911s and late 356s had very similar motors and you see 356 engines in the back of Ghias more often than the later 911 motors. Probably because there is less engineering involved.
Nicholas _________________ '66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Braukuche Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004 Posts: 10965
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Porsche 911 motor in ghia |
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sputnick60 wrote: |
Also check out the gallery. Do a search for the key words "Porsche" "Engine" and a fair few come up. Some of them in the back of Ghias.... like this one..
Rome wrote: |
While attending the Bug-Out VW meet in Manassas, VA in May 1985 (possible already in '84) I saw this remarkable '69 Ghia coupe. I remember it slowly driving towards me in the car show access road, making a clean appearance. Sprint Stars, removed rear fender reflectors; no quarter windows; and slightly rolled rear wheelwells. But the engine sound- wow- a very clean installation of a 911 engine. Note the original engine latch relocated to the upper left using a bracket, the custom rera engine cross-support, the wide-exit dual exhaust tips, the engine lid air scoop. I remember that the engine lid closed fully, making this an effective "sleeper".
In the front shot, that's my friend Michael W with the white shirt to the right. He went on to buy and manage the VW/Porsche/Audi dealer Autohaus of Harrisburg in Pennsylvania in the '90's. |
the early 911s and late 356s had very similar motors and you see 356 engines in the back of Ghias more often than the later 911 motors. Probably because there is less engineering involved.
Nicholas |
356 engines were four cylinder, 911 six cylinder. They really have nothing in common other than being air cooled.
The six cyl engines are longer and will.not fit without butchering the body. The 356 engines are close to the size of a type one and will fit with much less modification. _________________ Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
1973 Ghia convertible |
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NoDents Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2017 Posts: 438 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Porsche 911 motor in ghia |
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I seriously considered doing a 911 engine in my 71 vert resto/mod, but settled on a Type 4 with a 915 5 speed transmission.
Just too much modification for my skill set/budget.
_________________ No Dents
1963 Bug - Sold in 1980
1966 Karmann Ghia Convertible - Stolen in 1988
1971 Karmann Ghia Convertible, resto/mod COMPLETED 10/2020 |
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sputnick60 Samba Moderator
Joined: July 22, 2007 Posts: 3907 Location: In Molinya Orbit
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Porsche 911 motor in ghia |
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Braukuche wrote: |
356 engines were four cylinder, 911 six cylinder. They really have nothing in common other than being air cooled. |
Ah, yes... that was a cut and paste error on my part. That sentence should have started “ Ghias and late 356s had very similar motors and that’s why you see them in the back of Ghias. ...
Thanks for the correction
Nicholas _________________ '66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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KGCoupe Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005 Posts: 3580 Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche 911 motor in ghia |
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Braukuche wrote: |
sputnick60 wrote: |
Also check out the gallery. Do a search for the key words "Porsche" "Engine" and a fair few come up. Some of them in the back of Ghias.... like this one..
Rome wrote: |
While attending the Bug-Out VW meet in Manassas, VA in May 1985 (possible already in '84) I saw this remarkable '69 Ghia coupe. I remember it slowly driving towards me in the car show access road, making a clean appearance. Sprint Stars, removed rear fender reflectors; no quarter windows; and slightly rolled rear wheelwells. But the engine sound- wow- a very clean installation of a 911 engine. Note the original engine latch relocated to the upper left using a bracket, the custom rera engine cross-support, the wide-exit dual exhaust tips, the engine lid air scoop. I remember that the engine lid closed fully, making this an effective "sleeper".
In the front shot, that's my friend Michael W with the white shirt to the right. He went on to buy and manage the VW/Porsche/Audi dealer Autohaus of Harrisburg in Pennsylvania in the '90's. |
the early 911s and late 356s had very similar motors and you see 356 engines in the back of Ghias more often than the later 911 motors. Probably because there is less engineering involved.
Nicholas |
356 engines were four cylinder, 911 six cylinder. They really have nothing in common other than being air cooled.
The six cyl engines are longer and will.not fit without butchering the body. The 356 engines are close to the size of a type one and will fit with much less modification. |
That was always my understanding, but unless I'm missing something in that photo it would appear that the necessary body modifications may be minimal and limited to cutting into the area where the engine lid latch was originally positioned.
Now while I don't really know for certain, I would seriously doubt that a 911 engine could be successfully mated to the stock transaxle used in a Karmann Ghia.
If that is indeed the case, then perhaps much more "body" modification may be necessary that is visible in that photo.
Actual HP figures of a highly modified Type I or Type IV engine vs. even a stock 911 engine not withstanding, the visual impact of seeing a 6 cylinder 911 engine in the Karmann Ghia engine compartment provides a much bigger "high performance" impression IMO.
A Karmann Ghia doesn't get much Badder than the Bader Racing Ghia. |
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didget69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004 Posts: 4925 Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche 911 motor in ghia |
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A Type 4 engine with stock pancake cooling fan will fit with trimming of the rear apron tin. A Corvair engine will fit with rear apron trimming.
bnc _________________ I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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Starbucket Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007 Posts: 4006 Location: WA
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche 911 motor in ghia |
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The 356/912 Porsche is a much better choice as the 911 will make it ass heavy and not corner worth a darn while the 912/356 will be more like the stock Ghia handling and better balanced while giving you higher rev. limit than a type 4 VW. |
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fes Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011 Posts: 999 Location: Prince Edward Island
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Porsche 911 motor in ghia |
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I had the pleasure of driving a '69 912 this past summer..It's a 1600cc engine,based on the 356 with a twist..those heads are much bigger than VW heads,even 2l..The Germans really knew what they were doing engineering this engine..essentially the same bore and stroke as a VW engine,but the way the intake ports are designed,the squish area of the chambers and the way the valve train is set up..this car had a punch more powerful then the 1904cc in my Ghia..Now i didn't drive the shit out of the Porsche,but I could feel the difference..and the car is much heavier than A Ghia,the dual webers are the same as my HPMX 40s..the car also needed some basic tuneup to get it to optimal running condition,Which wasn't done at the time as my friend and our esteemed colleague Bob Norman (Yes,he's alive and well ) was just doing a brake job for the owner...
So if I was entertaining the idea of putting a "Porsha" engine in the back of any VW,it would be this.. _________________ '68 Campmobile-Pedro
'15 Golf-Stella Blau
'56 Oval-The Turd (for now) |
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didget69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004 Posts: 4925 Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche 911 motor in ghia |
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Starbucket wrote: |
The 356/912 Porsche is a much better choice as the 911 will make it ass heavy and not corner worth a darn while the 912/356 will be more like the stock Ghia handling and better balanced while giving you higher rev. limit than a type 4 VW. |
The Type 4 can be built to rev, it's been done for years.
Next.
Bryan _________________ I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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VeloMikey Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2012 Posts: 646 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche 911 motor in ghia |
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Here my buddy's 59 Vert from 1984. Hacked up the back and installed a 2.0L Type IV out of a 914. Everything was painted Porsche Raspberry Red and those are 48 IDFs. Too much torque and tons of wheel hop!
_________________ '58 Ghia 2387cc with a Berg / Folts 5 Speed
Ghia Build Thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768748 |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76761 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche 911 motor in ghia |
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Hoe about a Porsche/Polo engine. Same design as the 911 but only 4 cylinders.
Link
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Starbucket Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007 Posts: 4006 Location: WA
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche 911 motor in ghia |
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Glenn wrote: |
Hoe about a Porsche/Polo engine. Same design as the 911 but only 4 cylinders.
Link
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If I had that motor I would HAVE TO find a Porsche to put it in as I don't think I would want to be in a Ghia at 160MPH. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76761 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche 911 motor in ghia |
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Starbucket wrote: |
If I had that motor I would HAVE TO find a Porsche to put it in as I don't think I would want to be in a Ghia at 160MPH. |
In a 356.
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Braukuche Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004 Posts: 10965
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Porsche 911 motor in ghia |
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KGCoupe wrote: |
Braukuche wrote: |
sputnick60 wrote: |
Also check out the gallery. Do a search for the key words "Porsche" "Engine" and a fair few come up. Some of them in the back of Ghias.... like this one..
Rome wrote: |
While attending the Bug-Out VW meet in Manassas, VA in May 1985 (possible already in '84) I saw this remarkable '69 Ghia coupe. I remember it slowly driving towards me in the car show access road, making a clean appearance. Sprint Stars, removed rear fender reflectors; no quarter windows; and slightly rolled rear wheelwells. But the engine sound- wow- a very clean installation of a 911 engine. Note the original engine latch relocated to the upper left using a bracket, the custom rera engine cross-support, the wide-exit dual exhaust tips, the engine lid air scoop. I remember that the engine lid closed fully, making this an effective "sleeper".
In the front shot, that's my friend Michael W with the white shirt to the right. He went on to buy and manage the VW/Porsche/Audi dealer Autohaus of Harrisburg in Pennsylvania in the '90's. |
the early 911s and late 356s had very similar motors and you see 356 engines in the back of Ghias more often than the later 911 motors. Probably because there is less engineering involved.
Nicholas |
356 engines were four cylinder, 911 six cylinder. They really have nothing in common other than being air cooled.
The six cyl engines are longer and will.not fit without butchering the body. The 356 engines are close to the size of a type one and will fit with much less modification. |
That was always my understanding, but unless I'm missing something in that photo it would appear that the necessary body modifications may be minimal and limited to cutting into the area where the engine lid latch was originally positioned.
Now while I don't really know for certain, I would seriously doubt that a 911 engine could be successfully mated to the stock transaxle used in a Karmann Ghia.
If that is indeed the case, then perhaps much more "body" modification may be necessary that is visible in that photo.
Actual HP figures of a highly modified Type I or Type IV engine vs. even a stock 911 engine not withstanding, the visual impact of seeing a 6 cylinder 911 engine in the Karmann Ghia engine compartment provides a much bigger "high performance" impression IMO.
A Karmann Ghia doesn't get much Badder than the Bader Racing Ghia. |
Looks like he did some chopping on the sides, too.
You for sure would need a 901 gearbox with that hp, but if you base it off a later IRS pan it would not be as difficult. Then brake upgrades, too.
All that stuff is of course a ton of money just for the parts involved, and even with heavy mods you still have a Car that likely handles worse than a stock Ghia. Would be an interesting novelty item for sure, but as a practical machine,
not very. _________________ Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
1973 Ghia convertible |
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tommu Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2011 Posts: 615 Location: L.A.
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche 911 motor in ghia |
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I've been mulling over a Type 4 build with stock Fuel Injection. I have a couple of engines in the garage waiting to be built and spare FI components. Wondering if I can fit a pair of Bus Heat Exchanges and extractor exhaust too.
Personally I want to be as stock as possible. Smooth, reliable and powerful. _________________ |
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