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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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We rented widebands when they cost $2000-2500 to buy. Now they are $250-400, so there's not much point in renting a tool which will be used over and over again.
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Innovate-MTX-L-PLUS-Wideband-Kit-3918-p/innovate-3918.htm _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
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and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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jeffrey8164 Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 3817 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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That’s logical. Maybe this question is best for your site but I’ll ask anyway.
Do you think the 8’ cable is sufficient for a Ghia dash or glovebox mount? The 18’ cable seems a bit much. Can one “extend” the 8’ cable or is there a special sender wire in there somewhere that precludes this? _________________ Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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Splitdog Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004 Posts: 4125 Location: Planet VW
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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The 18' was perfect for my bug. By the time you run it where you want, etc. _________________ CH³NO²
Z = z² + C
Der Blitzkrieg Kafers
#notacallooker |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12714 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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I sure don't regret buying one! You will get more performance out of it than a lot of other bling items that are twice the price. |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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Here is one I use. It never needs calibration and it has worked for 4 yrs on my buggy with the same O2 sensor.
Some people burn up sensors like cigarettes.......
https://www.plxdevices.com/Wideband-O2-Touch-Screen-Multi-Guage-p/897346002719.htm
It can be daisy chained with other sensors if desired and will display voltage without anything extra so you can replace your voltmeter gauge if you have one. Fit's in a standard gauge opening.
I have a EGT daisy chained to it right now.
The wire running from the O2 sensor in back uses a mini molex plug into the controller which is easy to get and you can build your own extension or else get some matching gauge wire and just cut and extend it.
You can see the plug in the video picture. _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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epayne611 Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2011 Posts: 316 Location: Orange County, CA
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APPLEGREENVW Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2003 Posts: 2387 Location: Seekonk,Massachusetts USA
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jeffrey8164 Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 3817 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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Cheese and Rice!
Multigauge looks really convenient. _________________ Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5292 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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I watch that Gauge more then the tach I have a MTX-L _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9759 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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Throwing my hat in the ring.
1679
35x32 Semi-Hemi DP heads. No fluff and buff.
Webcam 118
1.4 rockers
1 3/8" header. No exhaust leaks. I checked!
Bla, Bla, Bla! I'm dragging out the resume on this engine again.
Dellorto DRLA 36 carbs.
28mm vents
.47 Idle jets
.2 Emulsion tubes
130 main jets
185 AC jets
CB MS-Digital distributor (vacuum reference). Set at 15°. Per the installation instructions. I'm still learning this distributors tuning aspects.
First drive with the initial tune, was lean. I have been running these jet settings for a while . And it sucks.
.47 idle jets=16 AFR at idle.
1/32th pedal throttle got me, 16.8 to 17.3, AFR.
WFO, 10.2 with the accel pump in play. After that at WFO on the hiway. AFR was 11.0 sustained.
Cruise was, 16.8 to 17.3 at 1/32 throttle position.
Jet stacks removed. Acell pump backed all the way off.
AFR at idle was 16.7 - 17.8.
2K RPM AFR was 18 - 19. The engine was completely gutless.
I upped the idle jets to .50.
Idle was 13.0 - 13.6. @950RPM
2K RPM read 17.4 - 18.0 AFR. I had better response to throttle inputs.
Put the stacks back in with a huge main jet(1.62) 180 AC jet.
Idle was 13.3 - 14.6 @ 950 RPM.
1/32 pedal @ 2500 RPM AFR was 16.3 - 17.1.
WFO AFR was 8.9.
Installed a 190 AC jet.
Idle was 14.6 - 17.1 AFR
Main jet is now 1.30. Cruise at 2500 RPM gave me 15.0 - 16.5 AFR.
I didn't note the WFO reading as It's difficult to read a gauge, tach and watch the road when things are happening rather quickly.
Accel pumps are now in play. I adjusted them just until the linkage stopped hanging up on the unthreaded edge of the pump shafts where the springs ride.
At every jet change I ran thru the LBI. Carb sync was verified before I started the jet swaps. The timing was verified via my laptop connected to the
MS-Digital data port.
Driving impressions are fairly good. With the .47 idle jets. The engine had a studdery feeling.
With the .50 idle jets and 190AC jets. I get smooth throttle response and a smooth cruise.
I'm gonna play a little with it today. Between rain storms. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12714 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:10 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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I want to reinforce something that the experienced guys keep saying on this thread.
Do not trust that the size marked on jets is what they actually are - even if you bought them new!
When I was tuning the idle curcuit on my carbs nearly a year ago I started with 55s - too rich, 52s - better, 50s - worse! What the heck? Oh well - 47s - big change and about right. Done!
Now winter is here and it acts a wee bit lean(no surprise)so lets put the 50s back it then.
Wait a minute... check them first! Out comes the miniture drill bits, find a size that fits these 50s and guess what? The drill bit is too big to fit both the 52s AND the 55s! The 50s are actually larger that the 55s! Now I look at them and they are not new, they are a bit too dark, as in tarnished so although they all came from the same supplier at the same time they were not new nor sized as marked. Lesson learned.
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GARRICK.CLARK Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2012 Posts: 1267 Location: Lancashire UK
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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Can I just ask this. If I want the mains on my 40 dells to come in early I would fit what number air jet. I have a 180 at the moment. My guess is a bigger number like a 210 which is more air. More air get the fuel to emulsify quicker and starts the mains working sooner |
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Zed999 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2018 Posts: 1244 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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GARRICK.CLARK wrote: |
Can I just ask this. If I want the mains on my 40 dells to come in early I would fit what number air jet. I have a 180 at the moment. My guess is a bigger number like a 210 which is more air. More air get the fuel to emulsify quicker and starts the mains working sooner |
In my experience whether that will work enough depends on how big the lean hole is. I went up to 220 (could have been 240) trying to run 34 vents with fuel saving small idles but in the end coming down a vent size was the only way. I could have fitted bigger idles + bigger main airs but that gave me very rich idle jet action right through it's range of throttle.
If you want to borrow some 200 and 220 (I might have 240 too) to try I'm just down the road in Rufford. |
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Wreck Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014 Posts: 1218 Location: Brisbane
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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GARRICK.CLARK wrote: |
Can I just ask this. If I want the mains on my 40 dells to come in early I would fit what number air jet. I have a 180 at the moment. My guess is a bigger number like a 210 which is more air. More air get the fuel to emulsify quicker and starts the mains working sooner |
Double check your float height , if you raise the float height it will also bring the mains in earlier . |
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GARRICK.CLARK Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2012 Posts: 1267 Location: Lancashire UK
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:22 am Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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I've got the floats set right. I did have a problem with them being to high, it raised the level of fuel too close to the aux fuel outlet. Zedd I might take up your offer on the AIR'S. Thanks |
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GARRICK.CLARK Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2012 Posts: 1267 Location: Lancashire UK
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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Is it possible to see on a DIGITAL AFR gauge when the idles finish and when the mains start,When all is done. In the past all I've seen is rich LOW and RICHER at WOT .
I'm looking at cruising fairly lean 15's with a richer WOT. 12.8.
I cant wait to get this bug finally tuned right. |
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tattooed_pariah Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2006 Posts: 2047 Location: El Cajon, CA
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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GARRICK.CLARK wrote: |
Is it possible to see on a DIGITAL AFR gauge when the idles finish and when the mains start,When all is done. In the past all I've seen is rich LOW and RICHER at WOT .
I'm looking at cruising fairly lean 15's with a richer WOT. 12.8.
I cant wait to get this bug finally tuned right. |
My AFR seems to do the exact opposite.. the car runs strong and "feels" fine, but it idles and runs at low throttle between 12 and 16 AFR but reads "AIR" when heavier on the throttle and higher speeds.. : shrugs :
Edit: i'm an idiot, dunno what i was thinking.. it's reversed.. half throttle and lower and i'm lean/air, half throttle and higher and i bounce between 13 and 19 afr..
I haven't touched my carbs in months, but iirc, i'm jetted in such a way that it should be pig rich...
Like i said, it runs strong "feels" good, and isn't popping or backfiring, so i haven't wanted to mess with it. But i do have some jet doctors on my bench and trying to find cash for the cb weber "upgrade" kit for the spray bar.. once i do that, i'll tear em apart, clean em again, and re jet as needed.. _________________ -pariah (just a novice from "that other VW site")
'72 Volksrod "Effigy"
"Never worry about stepping on people's toes. People who get their toes stepped on are either sitting down, or standing still on the job."
-Admiral Arleigh Burke, USN(ret.)
Last edited by tattooed_pariah on Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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VdanielW Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2008 Posts: 414 Location: indio, ca
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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I could make a difference to my afr readings by adjusting the idle enrichment screw at all speeds during idle progression cruise. I found that my engine liked to idle a bit rich (12.5 or so) so I put in smaller idle jets to compensate when on progression. Flat road freeway driving my idles were done between 65 & 70mph and the mains would start to come in. For me, the dreaded lean spot was only taken care of when I dropped the venturi down a size. Main air jets made very little change to when the mains came on. The only time I could get the mains to come in early enough, with the larger venturi, was when I ran no air jet at all. They did, however, make a huge difference in the top end of the rpm range. I got a best freeway mpg of 31mpg on a 1.5hr drive to Anahiem (31.3 there and 30.8 back). |
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GARRICK.CLARK Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2012 Posts: 1267 Location: Lancashire UK
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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That's a good mpg ya got there.
When I'm done with idles and mains I'm expecting no lean hole. Theses 40 dells have allways been rich. I'm using 34 vents. I'll try the 36 vents I have when I'm finished tuning.
I'm sure the float level is right. I no that makes a big difference. The fuel level in the bowl and emulsion tube wells need to be just right.
If you lower the fuel level in the bowl it makes it harder for the mains to start working, as well as fitting larger vents. |
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udidwht Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005 Posts: 3779 Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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tattooed_pariah wrote: |
GARRICK.CLARK wrote: |
Is it possible to see on a DIGITAL AFR gauge when the idles finish and when the mains start,When all is done. In the past all I've seen is rich LOW and RICHER at WOT .
I'm looking at cruising fairly lean 15's with a richer WOT. 12.8.
I cant wait to get this bug finally tuned right. |
My AFR seems to do the exact opposite.. the car runs strong and "feels" fine, but it idles and runs at low throttle between 12 and 16 AFR but reads "AIR" when heavier on the throttle and higher speeds.. : shrugs :
Edit: i'm an idiot, dunno what i was thinking.. it's reversed.. half throttle and lower and i'm lean/air, half throttle and higher and i bounce between 13 and 19 afr..
I haven't touched my carbs in months, but iirc, i'm jetted in such a way that it should be pig rich...
Like i said, it runs strong "feels" good, and isn't popping or backfiring, so i haven't wanted to mess with it. But i do have some jet doctors on my bench and trying to find cash for the cb weber "upgrade" kit for the spray bar.. once i do that, i'll tear em apart, clean em again, and re jet as needed.. |
The CB spray bar upgrade is crap. Stay away from it or you'll be chasing your tail around with issues due to it. The IDF does not need it. _________________ 1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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