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Case of the disappearing brake fluid: Lessons learned
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FlowerPowered
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:17 am    Post subject: Case of the disappearing brake fluid: Lessons learned Reply with quote

It can really throw you for a loop when you keep loosing brake fluid but you don't see evidence of a leak. It's probably not news that brake fluid can end up in the tunnel. This graphic shows why that can happen:

Front of tunnel access cover removed.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


AH HA. There it is...but how does it get there when the brake lines don't pass through the tunnel?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Well, here's the master cylinder mounting point. (No it's not a right-hand drive, The Samba gallery upload flipped the image.) As you can see, it's a double wall, effectively creating a channel to collect leaks:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



So if the master cylinder seal blows, it leaks into this side frame, which itself is a side tunnel, which is connected to the center tunnel. The arrow shows the flow, pointing towards the front of car:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It seems the leaked fluid collected in the low spot of the tunnel, then migrated to the back of the tunnel under acceleration. That's why only noticed a little wetness on the bottom of the chassis around the transmission, which fooled me to thinking it was not brake fluid, but was maybe engine oil. Also, pumping the brakes for bleeding never showed a leak because it simply collected in the tunnel.
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60ragtop
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: Case of the disappearing brake fluid: Lessons learned Reply with quote

yes, the tunnel the first place to look for disappearing brake fluid with no obvious leaks.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: Case of the disappearing brake fluid: Lessons learned Reply with quote

Nice find
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Mr.Duncan
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: Case of the disappearing brake fluid: Lessons learned Reply with quote

Make sure you wash out the tunnel of old brake fluid.

The inside paint will be stripped from the brake fluid, so you will want to coat it again.

This works:

http://www.eastwood.com/internal-frame-coating-w-spray-nozzle.html

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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vamram Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: Case of the disappearing brake fluid: Lessons learned Reply with quote

Great info, both your pics and Mr. Duncan's link to that spray. How did you clean out the tunnel of the accumulated brake fluid?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: Case of the disappearing brake fluid: Lessons learned Reply with quote

vamram wrote:
How did you clean out the tunnel of the accumulated brake fluid?


Water hose.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: Case of the disappearing brake fluid: Lessons learned Reply with quote

Mr.Duncan wrote:
vamram wrote:
How did you clean out the tunnel of the accumulated brake fluid?


Water hose.


Brake fluid is water soluble? Just that will leave the surface clean enough for the undercoating spray to adhere?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Case of the disappearing brake fluid: Lessons learned Reply with quote

Mr.Duncan wrote:
Make sure you wash out the tunnel of old brake fluid.

The inside paint will be stripped from the brake fluid, so you will want to coat it again.

This works:

http://www.eastwood.com/internal-frame-coating-w-spray-nozzle.html

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Wow. Took that tunnel from looking like a New York City sewer to a secret Egyptian tomb access passage.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:35 am    Post subject: Re: Case of the disappearing brake fluid: Lessons learned Reply with quote

FlowerPowered wrote:
Mr.Duncan wrote:
Make sure you wash out the tunnel of old brake fluid.

The inside paint will be stripped from the brake fluid, so you will want to coat it again.

This works:

http://www.eastwood.com/internal-frame-coating-w-spray-nozzle.html

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Wow. Took that tunnel from looking like a New York City sewer to a secret Egyptian tomb access passage.


Crack me up. They really do look like Manhattan subway tunnels where you would not want the train to stall!
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Mr.Duncan
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Case of the disappearing brake fluid: Lessons learned Reply with quote

vamram wrote:
Mr.Duncan wrote:
vamram wrote:
How did you clean out the tunnel of the accumulated brake fluid?


Water hose.


Brake fluid is water soluble? Just that will leave the surface clean enough for the undercoating spray to adhere?


That is correct, after it air-drys it wouldn't hurt to spray alcohol before the frame coating.

Standard automotive brake fluid (DOT 3,4 and 5.1) are made from polyethylene glycol (PEG). PEG is soluble in water, methanol, ethanol, acetonitrile, benzene, and dichloromethane, and is insoluble in diethyl ether and hexane. ... DOT 5 brake fluid is diorgano polysiloxane (Silicone). It is not soluble in water.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Case of the disappearing brake fluid: Lessons learned Reply with quote

FlowerPowered wrote:
Mr.Duncan wrote:
Make sure you wash out the tunnel of old brake fluid.

The inside paint will be stripped from the brake fluid, so you will want to coat it again.

This works:

http://www.eastwood.com/internal-frame-coating-w-spray-nozzle.html

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Wow. Took that tunnel from looking like a New York City sewer to a secret Egyptian tomb access passage.


That tunnel started out looking like this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


After I cleaned it out with lots of water, looked like this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I let it dry inside my garage for a week before applying the internal frame coating.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Case of the disappearing brake fluid: Lessons learned Reply with quote

ressurection... MrVWGuy, good stuff. great pics. you see they used your photos on the Eastwood site?? pretty cool...

Im gonna have to try this. Im currently having the same issues with leaking brake fluid into the pan. its always something...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:45 am    Post subject: Re: Case of the disappearing brake fluid: Lessons learned Reply with quote

estilholliday wrote:
ressurection... MrVWGuy, good stuff. great pics. you see they used your photos on the Eastwood site?? pretty cool...

Im gonna have to try this. Im currently having the same issues with leaking brake fluid into the pan. its always something...


Yes!! They gave me some free powder coat powder in return for the use of my pics!!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:09 am    Post subject: Re: Case of the disappearing brake fluid: Lessons learned Reply with quote

Since you are keeping up with an old thread, you REALLY need to install a grommet or a section of rubber hose on the brake line where it passes through the Popes hat on both sides to prevent the line from chafing through. But this line really needs to be replaced anyway.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Case of the disappearing brake fluid: Lessons learned Reply with quote

Here a tip I found from someone on youtube. I can't remember who. Put a plastic spacer around the master cylinder as it goes thru the Napoléon's hat. The next time the MC leaks it will be easier to see the brake fuild behind the pedals or below the MC.
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Last edited by APPLEGREENVW on Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Case of the disappearing brake fluid: Lessons learned Reply with quote

Not Pope's hat. Napoléon's hat.
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