| Author |
Message |
VWsArent4Hippies
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 3079
Location: The Bull City
|
 Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
 |
|
| busmania wrote: |
I’d like something like this. Page 202 in this thread. Maybe I’ll just go 15” wheel to start. I can’t tell if this one is tubbed.
|
Doubt that's tubbed. Here's one I did that looks very similar. 4" beam, dropped spindles, 4.5" plates from WW. Front is not tubbed or notched, but the rear was trimmed accordingly for the plates, and notched for CV boot clearance. Rides like a Cadillac!
_________________
| aeromech wrote: |
| in my opinion you don't know shit |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
|
|
^^^ That look just about fuckin' perfect!
_________________
nothing |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
busmania
Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2006
Posts: 1934
Location: Here
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
|
|
| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: |
| busmania wrote: |
I’d like something like this. Page 202 in this thread. Maybe I’ll just go 15” wheel to start. I can’t tell if this one is tubbed.
|
Doubt that's tubbed. Here's one I did that looks very similar. 4" beam, dropped spindles, 4.5" plates from WW. Front is not tubbed or notched, but the rear was trimmed accordingly for the plates, and notched for CV boot clearance. Rides like a Cadillac!
|
Love it. That’s what I’m going for. 15 or 17” rims? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VWsArent4Hippies
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 3079
Location: The Bull City
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
|
|
| cdennisg wrote: |
| ^^^ That look just about fuckin' perfect! |
I think it really is the perfect set up for a baywindow.
| busmania wrote: |
| Love it. That’s what I’m going for. 15 or 17” rims? |
15's. They're the aftermarket 5.5" 5x112 Fuchs. Not sure they would have fit on the rear if it didn't have the 4.5" plates that narrow the track. Would probably benefit from adjustable spring plates, as it's still a bitch getting the wheel on and off
_________________
| aeromech wrote: |
| in my opinion you don't know shit |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
busmania
Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2006
Posts: 1934
Location: Here
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
|
|
| Do you think a 17 X 7 wheel with low profile tires would fit? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VWsArent4Hippies
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 3079
Location: The Bull City
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
|
|
| busmania wrote: |
| Do you think a 17 X 7 wheel with low profile tires would fit? |
Not at that height. I don't think you realize how much work it is to make 17's look good. I can probably think of 5 baywindows with larger than 15" wheels that look like they were actually thought out. We're talking beams so narrow they mount inside frame rails, front and rear tubs, narrowed torsion housings, etc.
Examples. My buddy did this one, and has everything I mentioned. Looks perfect, tons and tons of work:
And then we have about 25.5 pages of poor wheel offset choices here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
Case in point, straight donked out! Just say no to wheel gap
_________________
| aeromech wrote: |
| in my opinion you don't know shit |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
|
|
I have to mention, though I have not slammed a bay window yet, so many I see have that weird, wide, negative camber look at the rear which I cannot fathom. I understand the need for a torsion narrow at that height, which may be why I have not attempted it thus far. VWsArent4Hippies has shown the right way to do this, thankfully.
I have that ability, but not yet the motivation.
_________________
nothing |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
busmania
Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2006
Posts: 1934
Location: Here
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:46 am Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
|
|
What do you mean by “wheel gap?” And your response is exactly why I’m here. I don’t want it to look wonky. I didn’t realize how much work 17’s would take. I appreciate your help.
How about this?
4” we beam
Dropped spindles
4.5” rear (to gain the 1/2” clearance...or should I go 3.5” with 15’s?)
15 x 5.5 rims 3 3/4” back spacing)
I’ll decide on tires later
I like these rims - is the back spacing good for my setup? What’s the back space on a stick rim?
https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D6628
Again, appreciate your help. I want to get it right the first time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
a1steaksauce
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2010
Posts: 612
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
|
|
| cdennisg wrote: |
so many I see have that weird, wide, negative camber look at the rear which I cannot fathom.
I have that ability, but not yet the motivation. |
Trust me I hate that too. Always makes me laugh when I see someone tubbing the front, notching the front frame rails, etc... to go low then not addressing that issue in the rear.
There is a really simple way to go about narrowing the rear. I stole the idea from Franz’s build over at kcw and simply expanded upon it. You just move the torsion housing and trailing arm mounting points in the amount you want to narrow. No need to touch the trailing arm itself. Plus when you move the inner mounting point up and level it, it will increase the travel and make the tires lay flat like it’s back at stock height. You will need to either cut and move the trailing arm splines out the amount you narrowed. or get a second set of trailing arms and simply cut the splines off and weld them to the other set to make up the distance that you have narrowed. I’ve personally done it both ways without issue. Axles can either be shortened by way of cutting and sleeving them or only narrowing the rear the difference between bus and bug axles. Ie run bug length axles. And actually you’d need a pair of thing axles if you do not want to modify the cv joints. Here’s a pic of a stock side on the left and a modified side on the right:
The outer torsion housing is simply sleeved into the torsion tube and plug welded in place. You need to carefully take a sawzaw and cut it off. Then drill or grind down the plug welds and remove the outer metal. Now you simply slide it back in the housing to your desired width you want and weld it all the way around. Another thing I do is I move the housing up slightly if I am planning on adjusting the rear torsion somewhat. That way I won’t be bottoming the spring plate out.
Last edited by a1steaksauce on Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:11 pm; edited 4 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
a1steaksauce
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2010
Posts: 612
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:32 am Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
|
|
And to the person asking about getting low on 17’s....if you’re not prepared to do a lot of work I wouldn’t do it. I did it once and don’t ever want to do it again. To me it wasn’t worth it in the end. All my future buses will be getting 15’s. Here’s my one bus I built to take 17’s:
All the work for that amount of low is as follows:
7in front beam raise, raised steering box, raised steering column, circular front tie rod notches, narrowed tie rods, custom one off tubs designed to not require door modifications, narrowed rear track, rear frame notches with axle gussets (axles were a touch too close to my notches and the notches were as high as they could go lol), custom 4.5in drop plates, custom length axles, rear wheel tubs, and a transmission and motor raise....and probably a bunch of other things I’m forgetting lol. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
busmania
Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2006
Posts: 1934
Location: Here
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:26 am Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
|
|
That bus looks amazing but being my first lowered bus I don’t want to take it that far. I’ll stick with 15’s for now. I want to keep it relatively simple and be driving the family around town by summer.
Now I just need to hear some feedback on 3 3/4” backspacing (the info on backspacing in this thread is very limited and no one ever mentions their back spacing). I also need to decide on the 4.5 or 3.5 rear drop plates. Thoughts? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
metz
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2005
Posts: 279
Location: Norway
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
|
|
| a1steaksauce wrote: |
| cdennisg wrote: |
so many I see have that weird, wide, negative camber look at the rear which I cannot fathom.
I have that ability, but not yet the motivation. |
Trust me I hate that too. Always makes me laugh when I see someone tubbing the front, notching the front frame rails, etc... to go low then not addressing that issue in the rear.
There is a really simple way to go about narrowing the rear. I stole the idea from Franz’s build over at kcw and simply expanded upon it. You just move the torsion housing and trailing arm mounting points in the amount you want to narrow. No need to touch the tailing arm itself. Plus when you move the inner mounting point up and level it will increase the travel and make the tires lay flat like it’s back at stock height. You will need to either cut and move the trailing arm splines out the amount you narrowed. or get a second set of trailing arms and simply cut the splines off and weld them to the other set to make up the distance that you have narrowed. I’ve personally done it both ways without issue. Axles can either be shortened by way of cutting and sleeving them or only narrowing the rear the difference between bus and bug axles. Ie run bug length axles. And actually you’d need a pair of thing axles if you do not want to modify the cv joints. Here’s a pic of a stock side on the left and a modified side on the right:
The outer torsion housing is simply sleeved into the torsion tube and plug welded in place. You need to carefully take a sawzaw and cut it off. Then drill or grind down the plug welds and remove the outer metal. Now you simply slide it back in the housing to your desired width you want and weld it all the way around. Another thing I do is I move the housing up slightly if I am planning on adjusting the rear torsion somewhat. That way I won’t be bottoming the spring plate out. |
Great post. I've always been interested in how the few that actually narrows the rear does it.
Have you ever seen/considered modifying a beetle hub and using a shorter stub axle? Would keep a lot of parts stock, but it's just a theory, I'm not sure it would work.
_________________
68 panel
64 ghia coupe |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
a1steaksauce
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2010
Posts: 612
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
|
|
| busmania wrote: |
| I also need to decide on the 4.5 or 3.5 rear drop plates. Thoughts? |
I think that depends on where you want your front end to sit. Nate’s rear 4.5 plates bring the wheels in slightly if memory serves. So honestly I’d set up your front where you want it. then do the caculations for how much to lower the rear and order the appropriate size drop plates.
| metz wrote: |
| Have you ever seen/considered modifying a beetle hub and using a shorter stub axle? Would keep a lot of parts stock, but it's just a theory, I'm not sure it would work. |
Honestly I wouldn’t even waste my time with it, no offense. The narrowing operation is very straight forward and allows you to retain all the bus stock parts. I wouldn’t want to trust beetle sized bearings and their smaller hubs with the weight of a bus.
My first narrowing took me about half a day to sort out and complete just one side. Did it with just a sawzaw, grinder, and a welder. I can now easily do both sides in less than half that time. Truthfully I’d rather narrow my rear than do tubs up front...when it comes to bus jobs lol. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ratlookvw
Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2004
Posts: 1809
Location: midnight train to GA
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
|
|
For early bay with narrowed beam and lowered spindles I use a corvette shock in the front NAPA part number #5850. Open the shock measures 14 inches and compressed 9.5 inches. The bus when sitting on the ground sits around 12 inches hole to hole. You need to reuse one of your old steel bushings from your old shocks and drill the other side just a hair. I run stock gas Kybs in the rear with relocated upper shock mounts. Hope this helps. Ratlookvw
_________________
If the RV Hut is a rockin, don't come a knockn'
57 Panel, 66 highroof panel, 65 Notch, 59 Vert, 61 Vert, 1969 Fridolin, 'Reggie ' 66 RV, 65 Pipe Truck, 65 RHD T-34, 70 dbl slider panel, 1969 Deep sea green sunroof automatic square, the greypoop-on, and a shit load of wheels! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AirKooledGarage
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2012
Posts: 314
Location: Wisco
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
|
|
17" are a pain. Love the look though.
WW 4" Narrowed beam, dropped spindles (about to move beam to 1" raised position). Frame notched for steering linkage. fenders tubbed 2". Custom bench so head doesn't hit the roof. Custom offset 4.5" Fuchs with 4" of backspacing
WW 3.5" horseshoe plates and adjustable spring plates, frame notched 2.5"
Fair amount of $ and countless hours to make it happen.
Tail end of the build, should wrap late spring.
_________________
1973 Bus
1974 Long Body Buggy (sold)
1965 Manxish buggy (kids car)
1961 Patina Bug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vee Dub Nut
Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2004
Posts: 1184
Location: Dallas, GA
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
|
|
| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: |
Case in point, straight donked out! Just say no to wheel gap
|
As the owner of the "donked out" Bus above, I'll confirm that this is low as you can practically lower a Bus on 17's without any body mods (or sub 45 section tires). It is certainly not "slammed", nor everyones cup of tea, but I get a lot more positive comments regarding stance than I get negative ones. If being slammed and tucking 17's is your goal (which I agree looks great), it will certainly require a TON of work. That's just not the end goal for my Bus right now.
Regarding the mentioned wheel gap, there is zero gap after I load up my family of 6, which is what this Bus was built to do.
_________________
Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2006
67 Beetle (TBD)
74 Transporter (EJ25 Swapped) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
See all my VW pics on Instagram @ vee_dub_nut |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
420GOAT
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2006
Posts: 3343
Location: Wilmington, CA on a nice quiet street but still in the 'hood
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
|
|
slammed busses are hard. if i ever have two, one will be slammmed the other stock for dirt roads and shit.
_________________
once you realize im not impressed we will get along just fine |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
creebobby
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2006
Posts: 10
Location: Whiteriver Arizona
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
|
|
Anybody know what are the biggest tires that will fit a drop spindled bay without rubbing?
I put EMPI drop spindles on the front.
Still need to lower the rear.
I’d like to put bigger tires on and there are some used 14” General Grabbers for sale locally. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
a1steaksauce
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2010
Posts: 612
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
|
|
Use this and a tape measure: https://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
You can plug in your current tire size and the new tire size then you can compare side wall heights. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering a Bay FAQ |
|
|
| creebobby wrote: |
Anybody know what are the biggest tires that will fit a drop spindled bay without rubbing?
I put EMPI drop spindles on the front.
Still need to lower the rear.
I’d like to put bigger tires on and there are some used 14” General Grabbers for sale locally. |
I'm a little confused. You want to put off road tires on your bus that you want to lower?
Don't get me wrong, you can do whatever you want, but that seems counterproductive.
_________________
nothing |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
