| Author |
Message |
NoDents
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2017
Posts: 438
Location: So Cal
|
 Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:49 am Post subject: Convertible Reinforcement Rails |
 |
|
I will be installing new heater channels in my 1971 Ghia (doing a body off resto/mod). I noticed that the old channels/rocker panel assembly has the re-enforcement rail attached to the rocker panel itself and not the heater channel.
Does anyone see a downside to attaching the reinforcement rail to the heater channel instead?
I have a concern that getting the rail placed exactly right inside the rocker panel, then making sure the rocker panel will fit onto the heater channel without having to "form" it to fit. My experience so far with replacement panels/floor pans HAS NOT been good. A tweak here; a bend there, etc. In fact the heater channels themselves are going to be fun. If I get it lined up at the "A" Pillar, the "curved" section going towards the front is about a 1/2" off where the 2 bolt holes line up to the body. Yikes! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
kman
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2005
Posts: 739
Location: Michigan
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:11 am Post subject: Re: Convertible Re-enforcement Rails |
|
|
I would do it as intended. The heater channel divider acts as one "beam" and the convertible reinforcement acts as another. it shouldn't be too bad if you tac weld and test fit before committing fully.
_________________
71 vert build. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=572951&highlight=dead |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Evil_Fiz
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 1045
Location: Jacksonville, FL
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NOVA Airhead
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2005
Posts: 5221
Location: Richmond, VA
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible Re-enforcement Rails |
|
|
The convertible reinforcement goes on first and then the outer skin.
Hopefully this photo illustrates when my last car was done.
_________________
Ghia Owner Emeritus |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NoDents
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2017
Posts: 438
Location: So Cal
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible Re-enforcement Rails |
|
|
NOVA Airhead: That is what I want to do, but the original piece I removed has the rail attached to the outer skin (like the diagram earlier in this thread, and the picture below).
Other than adding possible strength to the rocker skin itself (which a coupe DOES NOT have) the overall strength of the completed assembly would remain the same. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NoDents
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2017
Posts: 438
Location: So Cal
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible Re-enforcement Rails |
|
|
| djkeev wrote: |
So you will be mounting the convertible rail as I drew it in Green????
Dave |
No. Moving to the Yellow position and attaching to the heater channel:
_________________
No Dents
1963 Bug - Sold in 1980
1966 Karmann Ghia Convertible - Stolen in 1988
1971 Karmann Ghia Convertible, resto/mod COMPLETED 10/2020 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mellow Yellow 74
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014
Posts: 1615
Location: Sydney, Australia
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Convertible Re-enforcement Rails |
|
|
I think you are right that the reinforcement was originally welded to the rocker panel and you are right that doing it the same way would make things difficult. The rocker panel needs to be jacked up with quite a bit of force to make the flange sit flush with the edge of the heater channel and you may not be able to do this with the reinforcement already installed. The way you are proposing is the way NOVA did it which looks like the best way to me.
Also, the drawing showing "centre divider" is a little misleading - this is not the centre divider, it is the outside of the heater channel.
_________________
1962 Karmann Ghia
1974 Deluxe Microbus
1985 Caravelle (Vanagon) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NoDents
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2017
Posts: 438
Location: So Cal
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:50 am Post subject: Re: Convertible Re-enforcement Rails |
|
|
| Mellow Yellow 74 wrote: |
I think you are right that the reinforcement was originally welded to the rocker panel and you are right that doing it the same way would make things difficult. The rocker panel needs to be jacked up with quite a bit of force to make the flange sit flush with the edge of the heater channel and you may not be able to do this with the reinforcement already installed. The way you are proposing is the way NOVA did it which looks like the best way to me.
Also, the drawing showing "centre divider" is a little misleading - this is not the centre divider, it is the outside of the heater channel. |
Yes. Am concerned about getting the rocker shaped properly to fit the heater channel. Like you said, it will take some force as I have seen on some Youtube videos.
_________________
No Dents
1963 Bug - Sold in 1980
1966 Karmann Ghia Convertible - Stolen in 1988
1971 Karmann Ghia Convertible, resto/mod COMPLETED 10/2020 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mellow Yellow 74
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014
Posts: 1615
Location: Sydney, Australia
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:35 am Post subject: Re: Convertible Re-enforcement Rails |
|
|
| NoDents wrote: |
| Yes. Am concerned about getting the rocker shaped properly to fit the heater channel. Like you said, it will take some force as I have seen on some Youtube videos. |
If you have watched the My Friend Pete video on YouTube (and you would f*#%ing remember it if you had) he uses an oxy-acetylene flame to help bend it but you shouldn't need to do this - just a car jack and a length of wood is all you need.
_________________
1962 Karmann Ghia
1974 Deluxe Microbus
1985 Caravelle (Vanagon) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NoDents
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2017
Posts: 438
Location: So Cal
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Convertible Re-enforcement Rails |
|
|
| Mellow Yellow 74 wrote: |
| NoDents wrote: |
| Yes. Am concerned about getting the rocker shaped properly to fit the heater channel. Like you said, it will take some force as I have seen on some Youtube videos. |
If you have watched the My Friend Pete video on YouTube (and you would f*#%ing remember it if you had) he uses an oxy-acetylene flame to help bend it but you shouldn't need to do this - just a car jack and a length of wood is all you need. |
Yes, one of the videos I watched!
Sinced it seemed Pete had quite some VW experince, I made a trip to his shop last year on a visit to the Dallas area just to thank him for all the how to videos.
_________________
No Dents
1963 Bug - Sold in 1980
1966 Karmann Ghia Convertible - Stolen in 1988
1971 Karmann Ghia Convertible, resto/mod COMPLETED 10/2020 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
drorso
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2006
Posts: 17
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible Reinforcement Rails |
|
|
Hi,
My 73 Ghia convertible is now at a restoration shop for body off restoration.
Need advice from experienced people who have done such body off restoration.
Today I visited the shop. It's a very experienced one, but i found out that they did NOT put the reinforcement rails !!
The lower body was pretty rusty, they had to cut and replace many pieces. It's my fault as well as I didn't visit the shop frequently as i had to. The body is now attached to the frame, almost ready for paint.
Should I insist and ask them to detach the body and do the reinforcement? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NoDents
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2017
Posts: 438
Location: So Cal
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible Reinforcement Rails |
|
|
YES!
You need the extra support for a convertible.
You also need to make sure it is aligned properly so the rocker covers fit. I am learning the hard way about that. 
_________________
No Dents
1963 Bug - Sold in 1980
1966 Karmann Ghia Convertible - Stolen in 1988
1971 Karmann Ghia Convertible, resto/mod COMPLETED 10/2020 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
swavananda
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2009
Posts: 889
Location: Can o' Scruz
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible Reinforcement Rails |
|
|
The shop definitely needs to correct this. It can be done body on , but a big back step for them to remove the rocker skins to do this.
In reference to Pete’s videos. Though I grateful for the education value, there was something else to learn . I saw that he was called out for not treating any of the rust that was on the heater channels or interior metal, just slapped new metal on to get er done. On my rebuild I was lucky to have solid channels AND reinforcements. Though I took the time to strip and clean all the metal and treat it with master series coating. It may be a good thing to bring up with shop. Since they need to open it back up, ask them to do yo a solid by treating the metal. Good luck , hopefully the shop has the integrity to oblige. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
swavananda
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2009
Posts: 889
Location: Can o' Scruz
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible Reinforcement Rails |
|
|
Get the picture ??
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NOVA Airhead
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2005
Posts: 5221
Location: Richmond, VA
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Convertible Reinforcement Rails |
|
|
Its not likely that your car will end up like the picture of the 914 without the reinforcements as the center tunnel provides considerable support for the chassis. However not having the reinforcements will cause problems with your door gaps and over time proper closing of the doors. Also I would think you will experience increased cowl shake.
What a difference I found driving a Ghia with properly sorted rockers. Virtually no squeaks and rattles...or shaking. If you can get this done you should.
_________________
Ghia Owner Emeritus |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jason
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002
Posts: 3444
Location: Garage
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible Reinforcement Rails |
|
|
| Verts usually go the other way. Gaps increase, the front and back move away from each other. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
didget69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4927
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: Convertible Reinforcement Rails |
|
|
| swavananda wrote: |
Get the picture ??
|
... picture received, but the 914 is a Unibody.
Not a body bolted to pan.
bnc
_________________
I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
