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BarryL 
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14259
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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 Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:15 am Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
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| flendershirebu wrote: |
| how would i find the degree? to time it i put it on tdc with the rotor pointing to the #1 notch on the distributor then played with the timing light. there is a good possibility this might be my problem but thats the best way i know how to time it |
Can you post a photo of your pulley with the mark(s) at the top showing?
| flendershirebu wrote: |
| i tried loosening the little screw on top of the solenoid and i still got the same results. |
Did you turn it a lot to the left (counter clockwise)?
| flendershirebu wrote: |
| where on the carb does gas flow through for it to idle?i see 3 holes inside of where the solenoid screws into where do they lead to? |
Here is a copyrighted by Bentley Manual borrowed simplified drawing of the idle and transition circuit.
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flendershirebu
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Joined: October 16, 2018
Posts: 183
Location: VA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| Can you post a photo of your pulley with the mark(s) at the top showing? |
here are the markings im talking about. the paint mark isn't correct though because i put on a new pulley the old one was damaged
| BarryL wrote: |
| flendershirebu wrote: |
| i tried loosening the little screw on top of the solenoid and i still got the same results. |
Did you turn it a lot to the left (counter clockwise)? |
i think it was tightened all the way so i turned it counterclockwise 2 turns then tried the engine and tried 3 turns and tried again got the same response both tries
omg that picture is EXACTLY what i wanted. so when i was blowing air through the holes inside of where the idle screw goes i can account for air coming through...
1.the hole on top of where it threads in
2.the top of the other jet closer towards the center of the carb
3.at least one of the holes down underneath the accelerator butterfly(when checking i didnt know i was searching for 2) |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14259
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
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Okay come back to the timing later as it sounds good enough for bench running.
What is the history of what has been done to the carb? You say 1980 was when it was parked?
Will you tell about the bus or have a thread on it?
That engine looks to be a '66 or '67. Was it original 6 volt? |
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flendershirebu
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2018
Posts: 183
Location: VA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
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| BarryL wrote: |
Okay come back to the timing later as it sounds good enough for bench running.
What is the history of what has been done to the carb? You say 1980 was when it was parked?
Will you tell about the bus or have a thread on it?
That engine looks to be a '66 or '67. Was it original 6 volt? |
i guess the only thing thats been done to the carb since 1980 was me trying to clean it/ new gasket kit
i wouldnt be against the idea of a thread if i had a better understanding of what is expected in a thread
REALLY?! 66 or 67?!!how can you tell? as far as i knew it was originally 6 volt, every bulb and motor has the 6V stamped on it but just from looking at some of the mismatched parts on the bus i was kinda suspecting that whoever had it before me had another they were cannibalizing
also today i was considering cutting my losses with this carb and just biting the bullet and purchasing a fresh one would that be suggested or is there other routes i could take to try to save this one |
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mandraks
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004
Posts: 7047
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
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| flendershirebu wrote: |
also today i was considering cutting my losses with this carb and just biting the bullet and purchasing a fresh one would that be suggested or is there other routes i could take to try to save this one |
maybe this will help you decide?
https://www.volkzbitz.com/prices---contact-info.html
_________________
regards
Uli
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'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14259
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
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| flendershirebu wrote: |
| i guess the only thing thats been done to the carb since 1980 was me trying to clean it/ new gasket kit |
How did you clean it? Don't give up on this one.
| flendershirebu wrote: |
| i wouldnt be against the idea of a thread if i had a better understanding of what is expected in a thread |
Just keep going with this one but add your bus pics and maybe add/alter the title from time to time to more match the current discussions. Sofar sogood.
| flendershirebu wrote: |
| That engine looks to be a '66 or '67. Was it original 6 volt? |
HO case number started in fall of '65 and was 6 volt the the next year was 12 volt.
| flendershirebu wrote: |
| also today i was considering cutting my losses with this carb and just biting the bullet and purchasing a fresh one would that be suggested or is there other routes i could take to try to save this one |
After you say what you did to clean it there are options but don't get another carb yet. Get another pilot jet one without the solenoid. |
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flendershirebu
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2018
Posts: 183
Location: VA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
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| BarryL wrote: |
How did you clean it? Don't give up on this one. |
it was a while ago so i dont really remember but i just used a can of carb cleaner and shot through all the jets/passages/ and scrubbed the bowl then i had a new kit with gaskets,jets,and diaphragms. i threw all the old parts in a box so i can at least identify/compare stuff to the original
| BarryL wrote: |
Just keep going with this one but add your bus pics and maybe add/alter the title from time to time to more match the current discussions. Sofar sogood. |
sweet sounds like a plan
| BarryL wrote: |
HO case number started in fall of '65 and was 6 volt the the next year was 12 volt. |
i did the bus birth certificate thing a while ago and it told me it was made in april 1965 but the previous owner definitely had access to another bus so it would completely make sense that they swapped the engine out as well
| BarryL wrote: |
After you say what you did to clean it there are options but don't get another carb yet. Get another pilot jet one without the solenoid. |
ok im still waiting on that one guy with the pilot jets to get back to me he said he had them just needed to pick them up |
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flendershirebu
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2018
Posts: 183
Location: VA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
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| mandraks wrote: |
| flendershirebu wrote: |
also today i was considering cutting my losses with this carb and just biting the bullet and purchasing a fresh one would that be suggested or is there other routes i could take to try to save this one |
maybe this will help you decide?
https://www.volkzbitz.com/prices---contact-info.html |
yikes! a new one is definitely a last resort |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14259
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
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| flendershirebu wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
How did you clean it? |
it was a while ago so i dont really remember but i just used a can of carb cleaner and shot through all the jets/passages/ and scrubbed the bowl |
Did you take out the air correction jet and main jet? I think you are only a particle away from getting it running right. Did you see the earlier post about the shade tree tuneup method at the bottom of page 1 by flemcadiddlehopper? You run the engine at a relatively high rpm then place your hand over the carb and hold it there. This creates a high suction and sometimes cleans out a passage that has debris. (it also can make things worse and give your hand a hickey)
| flendershirebu wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
HO case number started in fall of '65 and was 6 volt the the next year was 12 volt. |
i did the bus birth certificate thing a while ago and it told me it was made in april 1965 but the previous owner definitely had access to another bus so it would completely make sense that they swapped the engine out as well |
What is your whole engine number. You can look it up "Technical" pulldown to "Vin/Chassis numbers. There are the engine numbers there. |
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flendershirebu
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Joined: October 16, 2018
Posts: 183
Location: VA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:10 am Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
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| BarryL wrote: |
Did you take out the air correction jet and main jet? I think you are only a particle away from getting it running right. Did you see the earlier post about the shade tree tuneup method at the bottom of page 1 by flemcadiddlehopper? You run the engine at a relatively high rpm then place your hand over the carb and hold it there. This creates a high suction and sometimes cleans out a passage that has debris. (it also can make things worse and give your hand a hickey) |
im positive that if it looked like i could unscrew it i would have taken it out and sprayed carb cleaner in. i did try that trick very briefly but i guess i could try it at a higher rpm i was just worried id damage something
| BarryL wrote: |
| flendershirebu wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
HO case number started in fall of '65 and was 6 volt the the next year was 12 volt. |
i did the bus birth certificate thing a while ago and it told me it was made in april 1965 but the previous owner definitely had access to another bus so it would completely make sense that they swapped the engine out as well |
What is your whole engine number. You can look it up "Technical" pulldown to "Vin/Chassis numbers. There are the engine numbers there. |
i just checked it out and dont really understand it but i do see that h0 is not until august 65 into 66 and 67.the entire number is H0822831. would that put it sometime in july-August of 67? |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14259
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
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| flendershirebu wrote: |
| i just checked it out and dont really understand it but i do see that h0 is not until august 65 into 66 and 67.the entire number is H0822831. would that put it sometime in july-August of 67? |
Looks like between May and June 1967 in the Beetle section. A good engine.
You seem to have good assemble and cleaning skills as well as knowledge of what you are doing. It would be nice to diagnose what is plaguing your idle. That is why I keep harping on the idle circuit at least to eliminate it as the problem.
There are many things that can make it not settle down to idle like a leak at the base of the carb, severely worn throttle shaft, leak at the intake of the head among others. Do you have a hand-held propane bottle torch? |
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flendershirebu
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Joined: October 16, 2018
Posts: 183
Location: VA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| flendershirebu wrote: |
| i just checked it out and dont really understand it but i do see that h0 is not until august 65 into 66 and 67.the entire number is H0822831. would that put it sometime in july-August of 67? |
Looks like between May and June 1967 in the Beetle section. A good engine. |
aww shoot! not even a bus engine dangit!  well whatever i guess that just makes swapping the engine out less of a sentimental ordeal (if i ever decide to change it) i thought it'd be cool to convert to electricity one day
| BarryL wrote: |
| You seem to have good assemble and cleaning skills as well as knowledge of what you are doing. It would be nice to diagnose what is plaguing your idle. That is why I keep harping on the idle circuit at least to eliminate it as the problem. |
thank you im definitly hoping your right about the new idle circuit ill check in again with the guy who has promised idle pieces. i also just remembered the first time i cleaned the carb out i used tap water to test the accelerator faucet thing and when i saw it worked i emptied it and buttoned it back up then when i tried it again(probably cleaned 2 years ago?) it was clogged with calcium and i had to clear out that pathway in the carb. Could the pathway that controls the idle also have been be clogged in the same way. if thats a possibility how could i clear it out? if it was clogged why can i feel air blowing below the accelerator butterfly when i take compressed air to it?(i realize tap water was a horrible idea and would never try this again) hopefully i didnt ruin the carb by doing that
| BarryL wrote: |
| There are many things that can make it not settle down to idle like a leak at the base of the carb, severely worn throttle shaft, leak at the intake of the head among others. Do you have a hand-held propane bottle torch? |
i attempted to lap the valves before reassembling and there are new seals around the base of the carb. is the "throttle shaft" the brass shaft inside the solenoid? and yikes, i think so. what for? |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14259
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
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| Can anyone else help answer his questions? I can't get here fast or often enough. |
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flemcadiddlehopper
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Joined: December 05, 2011
Posts: 2332
Location: Kelowna, BC. Canada.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:51 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
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I can't believe you'r still fighting this one.
I've only been peaking in at this every now and then, but.... from the video it looked like it was dying while the throttle was being worked. Could this not just be a fuel supply/ float level problem.
Does it have a new float and needle and seat? Float level is one of the most important factors in a carb set-up as it effects air/fuel ratios across the board.
Gordo.
_________________
Everybody Dies....Some Never Live.
Retrograde Garage. Vintage Aircooled, and others. |
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flendershirebu
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2018
Posts: 183
Location: VA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| Can anyone else help answer his questions? I can't get here fast or often enough. |
don't worry about fast or often its like my grandmother always said "make it convenient for you" i definitely appreciate the leads you have given me so far, thank you |
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flendershirebu
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2018
Posts: 183
Location: VA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
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| flemcadiddlehopper wrote: |
I can't believe you'r still fighting this one.
I've only been peaking in at this every now and then, but.... from the video it looked like it was dying while the throttle was being worked. Could this not just be a fuel supply/ float level problem.
Does it have a new float and needle and seat? Float level is one of the most important factors in a carb set-up as it effects air/fuel ratios across the board.
Gordo. |
yeah when the throttle returns to its resting position it'll cut out. the engine will only stay running if im constantly pumping it. it does have a new need/seat but not a new float. how can i properly adjust the float level? |
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Erik G
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flemcadiddlehopper
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Joined: December 05, 2011
Posts: 2332
Location: Kelowna, BC. Canada.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
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| flendershirebu wrote: |
| flemcadiddlehopper wrote: |
I can't believe you'r still fighting this one.
I've only been peaking in at this every now and then, but.... from the video it looked like it was dying while the throttle was being worked. Could this not just be a fuel supply/ float level problem.
Does it have a new float and needle and seat? Float level is one of the most important factors in a carb set-up as it effects air/fuel ratios across the board.
Gordo. |
yeah when the throttle returns to its resting position it'll cut out. the engine will only stay running if im constantly pumping it. it does have a new need/seat but not a new float. how can i properly adjust the float level? |
Unfortunately you have to take the top off the carb. There should be a spec for the float adjustment. It's usually measure with the top turned upside-down and measured from the float top to the gasket flange of the carb top.
I think if you watch the video again, the engine is dying while you're holding the throttle part way open. Not on the throttle stop screw (which is the only time the idle circuit is relied upon). The initial popping back in the carb is most likely the lean condition caused by the choke being held open.
If you constantly work the throttle ( running on the accelerator circuit), how long can you keep it running?
Gordo.
_________________
Everybody Dies....Some Never Live.
Retrograde Garage. Vintage Aircooled, and others. |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14259
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
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| flendershirebu wrote: |
| flemcadiddlehopper wrote: |
| but.... from the video it looked like it was dying while the throttle was being worked.. |
yeah when the throttle returns to its resting position it'll cut out. the engine will only stay running if im constantly pumping it. |
I thought you could run it with just the throttle held like half way and more open? If not then we need to take out your main jet. The large brass nut at the base of the bowl needs to come out have a look at it. Gas will run out as you remove it so put a couple paper towels below to catch it as the bowl drains.
Don't worry about replacing the float itself yet.
| flendershirebu wrote: |
| is the "throttle shaft" the brass shaft inside the solenoid? and yikes, i think so. what for? |
Throttle shaft is the lower butterfly shaft and it will wear where it pivots at the lever.
| BarryL wrote: |
| Do you have a hand-held propane bottle torch? |
Did you see this question?
| flendershirebu wrote: |
| (i realize tap water was a horrible idea and would never try this again) hopefully i didnt ruin the carb by doing that |
No it won't ruin it.
| flendershirebu wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| flendershirebu wrote: |
| i just checked it out and dont really understand it but i do see that h0 is not until august 65 into 66 and 67.the entire number is H0822831. would that put it sometime in july-August of 67? |
Looks like between May and June 1967 in the Beetle section. A good engine. |
aww shoot! not even a bus engine dangit! well whatever... |
Same if not slightly better. |
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flendershirebu
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2018
Posts: 183
Location: VA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
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| flemcadiddlehopper wrote: |
Unfortunately you have to take the top off the carb. There should be a spec for the float adjustment. It's usually measure with the top turned upside-down and measured from the float top to the gasket flange of the carb top. |
ok so the carb is off and drained i want to correctly adjust the needl/seat before reinstalling but after that i think ill try to post another vid of everything its doing so i can hopefully be more clear. does anyone know what i need to adjust to or where can i find the correct measurements?
| flemcadiddlehopper wrote: |
I think if you watch the video again, the engine is dying while you're holding the throttle part way open. Not on the throttle stop screw (which is the only time the idle circuit is relied upon). The initial popping back in the carb is most likely the lean condition caused by the choke being held open.
If you constantly work the throttle ( running on the accelerator circuit), how long can you keep it running?
Gordo. |
as far as i understand itll run as long as the throttle remains down but once the spring returns it to its normal position itll die (ive taken the spring off and it stayed running because the throttle didnt return to its position but i figured that was the equivalent on keeping your foot on the gas pedal constantly and not idling ). but ill try to demonstrate in another vid after i get the carb back on |
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