Electrical nightmare

[JCockrill]

Pulled the electrical ignition switch today once the new part came in. Looks to be a problem as you can tell in the second photo.

Will be placing the new switch and let you know what the outcome is of this.

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'15 Manxter on a '72 pan with '74 engine/trans/and axles. Just trying to work out the gremlins in the build

[JCockrill]

Put in the new switch and still not starting. It sounded like it wanted to just 1 time for a half a second but that was it.

It did blow fuses for the horn and master cylinder (see wiring diagram - first from left) and fuse for headlight switch (see diagram - second from left)

I disconnected most everything and tried again with no positive results.
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'15 Manxter on a '72 pan with '74 engine/trans/and axles. Just trying to work out the gremlins in the build

[sb001]

Need LOTS more info- what switch did you buy, how did you connect it to the wire harness you have, etc...?
Did you blow those fuses when you turned the key?? This would indicate a short to ground in that wire path, as if turning the key somehow grounded that circuit. The only way I could see that happening is connecting the switch wrong.
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I'm the humblest guy on this board.

1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor

[JCockrill]

SB, I get we need more info I just didn't have it. The post was just to let everyone know the switch did not solve the problem. I put the switch in and it didn't work. I do not know when the fuses blew. I am going to trouble shoot a little this morning and have more info for a follow up. I am about ready to set the entire thing on fire.
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'15 Manxter on a '72 pan with '74 engine/trans/and axles. Just trying to work out the gremlins in the build

[JCockrill]

So here are some results of testing with the new switch in.

Switch is from cip1 and is the VWC-111-905-865-LGR. Yes I know the switch has some plastic that doesn't fit on my column. I trimmed off the two tabs to fit. Matched the seat to the pin slid in. Secured with the set screw.

The wiring diagram is posted on the first page and lined up the connections as shown there.
Ignition coil to 15
12v to 30
Starter to 50
ACC to X

Volt to #30 is 12.61
Volt #15 is zero or close to. I tried with both wires.
Volt to #50 while attempting to start its 10.77 (figuring low is due to high load during starting)

Checked idle cut off valve at carb. Pulled wire. Ignition on run but not start and touched wire to lead. Idle valve did click.

Some reason I am not getting the ignition electrical switch to work even on the new one.

I then hot wired the car. Ran direct power to the #15 coil wire. Checked at coil and was getting 12v. Pulled center white from distributor and was getting a spark when starting and grounded. Plugged back in and pulled spark plug #1. During starting and grounded I was getting a spark.

Checked distributor orientation with valve covers off to make sure it was timed right and not off 180 degrees. Confirmed the orientation.

Still not getting it to run.

During turn over I am getting fuel as I can smell it after a few started. Pulled top of cerb and reservoir is full.

Next step?
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'15 Manxter on a '72 pan with '74 engine/trans/and axles. Just trying to work out the gremlins in the build

[ashman40]

[JCockrill]

Shooting the test now and keeping hopeful this is the issue. Writing as I do the test so here goes....

All wires removed from the ignition switch except for 30 of course to keep power to the switch

Power into 30 is 13.3V. Just took it off charge.

#15 = 0v in OFF. - yes. Near zero
12v in ON/RUN. Yes. 13.3V
12v in START. Yes. 13.3V

#X = 0v in OFF. Yes. Near zero
12v in ON/RUN. Yes. 13.3V
0v in START. Yes. Near zero.

#50 = 0v in OFF. Yes. Near zero
0v in ON/RUN. Yes. Near zero
12v in START. Yes. 13.3

I have a new switch for a 73 I am picking up tomorrow to have the right one.

I have done this with 3 different wires. The original harness I installed 3 years ago. A new 16 gauge wire I have run. Also a 16 gauge external wire. I can rotate through to see which is working if that is something that would be helpful.

Wondering if it is a compounded problem with mixture being wrong or choke not working due to a fried switch at carb.
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'15 Manxter on a '72 pan with '74 engine/trans/and axles. Just trying to work out the gremlins in the build

[JCockrill]

For the first time in 2+ weeks I got a it to spark and run if just for a few seconds! I used a pole to hammer down the gas pedal and also ran a now 4th test wire from #15 on ignition electrical switch to the #15 positive on the coil. On the 3rd try I got it running but as soon as I let off the gas pedal it died. I am guessing the choke switch is dead on the carb? Could a bad #15 wire also explain why the fuses #1 and #2 are blowing when turning on the car to run (not even getting to start)?

I have to say I know the problems are not solved by any means but I am really f%$&*>g happy to hear that engine if just for a few seconds!! I have been losing my mind and I'm sure the wife has found me a pain to deal with these past few weeks so far!
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'15 Manxter on a '72 pan with '74 engine/trans/and axles. Just trying to work out the gremlins in the build

[sb001]

Based on the wiring diagram you posted earlier, please confirm what color coded wire do you have running from #15 on the ignition switch back to the ignition coil?
And what color do you have running from #50 on the switch back to the starter?

I ask because I see at least one discrepancy on two separate parts of the wiring diagram (although I don't think it would explain the issue, I'll get to that in a second):

In this diagram:

it shows the 12-black wire as the starter wire, running from #50 on the ignition switch back to the starter.

But in this diagram:

It shows this wire as 12-black/blue. I just want to be sure that you do indeed have #50 wire from the ignition switch going to the starter!

As for your issue blowing fuses I still think that has something to do with shorting the wire coming off the #15 (run) position on the switch shorting. HOWEVER, the fact that this terminal also leads out to the ignition coil makes me wonder if it's something back around your coil area. Detach EVERYTHING from the coil except for the lead coming in from the ignition switch (on #15 terminal) and the green condenser wire on negative (#1) terminal. This includes the wire over to the choke (for this quick test purpose shouldn't be necessary), the wire for the reverse light switch, and the tach wire connected to the #1 terminal (this is the one I m especially interested in disconnecting.) Then try starting the car again and see what happens.
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I'm the humblest guy on this board.

1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor

[ashman40]

[JCockrill]

Going to work some more tomorrow to trouble shoot but wanted to answer some of the easy questions.

SB - the 15 wire to the ignition switch was blue and black
The 50 wire to the ignition switch for starter was a heavy gauge light blue and black
The 30 wire to the ignition switch was white
ACC to X wire was black

At the starter is was a double white wire , a light blue and black wire, and the battery wire in of course.

At the ignition coil it is a blue and black to #15 positive
A purple wire for tach to positive
Black wire to positive for transmission
Green wire to negative for distributor condenser
A wire split into two from positive side and both are for the distributor
And of course the center wire for distributor

I have not been running the tach in a few weeks. It has been disconnected for most of these tests. Only have the choke wires x2, the condenser green wire, and the coil 15 in.

Have it running on the external test wire right now for coil 15 until I narrow the issue. For this purpose it is yellow and black. Figured that doesnt match anything else so I cannot confuse it.

Ashman,
I did get the new ignition switch. 1973 set up. Figure I will switch after we narrow the issue instead of introducing it right now?

I am going to print the test list tonight and hopefully get to it tomorrow.

I cannot thank everyone enough for their help on this so far.
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'15 Manxter on a '72 pan with '74 engine/trans/and axles. Just trying to work out the gremlins in the build

[JCockrill]

Ashman and SB

Here is the test. Writing as I run down both lists.

Ashman
I disconnected the white wire into fuses #1 & #2 and wrapped them in a shop towel. Next I...

SB
I disconnected everything from coil except main center wire to distributor, green condenser wire to coil negative, and #15 to coil. At ignition it was only starter, coil 15 and 30 power in. Attempted a start and it fired. Of course died shortly thereafter as no choke. I will get back to the fuses at the end. Next...

Back to Ashman for the next 13 steps.

Ashman,
I have a battery disconnect so using that to cut and start power so it is a clean break.

Fuses still disconnect at #1 & #2

Disconnected fuse #3 and disconnected the speedo black and black wire and have it away from other wires or grounds. That was not an easy wire to get to with my setup!

Disconnected #15 at coil and switch. Test ohms and had 00.3 to 00.7. Tested a completely separate wire from a box I have and that 1 foot of wire was coming up as 00.3. I am thinking this resistance check is good for blue and black with no connections.

Grounding the blue black at the engine and testing the negative to the disconnected blue black at ignition switch and getting a reading of 2.5 to 3.0.

I know you said zero so I did the same test again with the 2nd internal wire I retain about two weeks ago. Grounded at engine and the tested disconnected switch side to ground and came up with same results. Between 2.5 and 3.1. Resistance being the length of the wire I am assuming and not a grounded wire midstream?

Coil completely disconnected. Testing two small screws. The negative and positive. Resistance it 3.7 to 4.0. Hovering right at 4.0.

To tell you the truth on the next it is cold out here and couldn't tell much. It felt like the blue black wire connector at the ignition switch did get warm. Turned power back off. Felt cooler after turning off power.

Tested battery voltage and came out at 12.68

Power on. Ignition switch on.

Power at blue black at engine is 12.6

Power at coil positive post is 12.6

Choke disconnected and solenoid disconnected. Wire to coil and touched to the solenoid wire and did hear a click each time I touched it. Left it connected.

Maybe I am not doing the next test correctly because I could not get results. Pulled center wire from distributor. Pulled distributor cap. Made sure engine was lined up at TDC for cylinder #1. Had a plastic stake on the arm under the cap. Points were touching. Turned car ignition switch to on. When manipulating the arm under the cap so the points would touch/not touch while holding the center wire (while connected to the coil on other end) above a ground (the distributor latch or distributor case) I could not get sparks. I tried both distributors. The 009 and the vacuum advance.

I tested voltage at 15 at coil, coil pin positive, and center of coil during switch on and always got 11.58 which is what my battery is at now.

Tried to start with the 009 in. Made sure I was on the right timing and valve covers back on.
Cant get it to start now.

Could both condensers be bad now? Felt like I took steps back here. Green wire to negative. Coil 15 to switch and positive on coil. Choke and solenoid on positive coil.

Now my multimeter has crapped out. Going to run to the store and get another. First test back I figure will be positive coil at 15 to negative on condenser at distributor under the cap to see if I have a transfer through the condenser?
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'15 Manxter on a '72 pan with '74 engine/trans/and axles. Just trying to work out the gremlins in the build

[sb001]

[ashman40]