Engine stalled on freeway. Need help Diagnosing

[felixbobcat]

Hi All,

While driving in slow moving traffic on the 605 Freeway this afternoon, my 85 Westfalia with automatic trans and 2.1 engine and Digifant electronics suddenly died. I was driving down a slight incline and when I went to press on the gas pedal there was a definite drop in power. Soon after the engine died and the OXS light and oil light started flashing. I was able to get it to the side of the road and tried to restart it with no luck. I opened the engine bay and did a quick check but did not see anything wrong.

Called AAA and while waiting for the tow truck I tried the engine again and it started right up! It may have rested a about ten to fifteen minutes. I drove the twenty miles back home without any problems. The tank was 3/4 full so not a fuel problem although it felt like no gas was getting to the engine when it stalled. I recently installed the GoWesty Signal Filter because I experienced what felt like Vanagon Syndrome. Driving on the freeway, engine cuts out for a few seconds then runs smoothly without any further problems.

Any thoughts on what could have caused the stall? Stop and go traffic was the only thing different in the drive. Once the engine is cool enough I'm going to check all the grounds but they all have previously been nice and tight. I did solder the wires on the signal filter so those connections should all be good as well.

The Tachometer has always been erratic, usually bouncing all over then settling and then bouncing all over again. I feel that is a bad foil on the back of the tach.

Thanks for any help.

Bob

[CurtisS]

Just guessing but maybe an overheating fuel pump? It may require waiting for it to fail again before you can verify by opening the fuel bleeder and seeing if there is fuel.
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If "con" is the opposite of "pro", what is the opposite of "progress"?

[jberger]

Check the connections on your coil. If your tach needle is bouncing could be corroded or loose connections on the negative side. The tach and ecu signal wire share a plastic housing at the coil, perhaps they are related. Other than that, go through the protraining steps.

J

[Howesight]

Is your 2.1 engine and Digifant system the factory engine and ECU? The 1985 models usually came with the 1.9 and Digijet.

Anyway, the symptom of your tachometer needle bouncing around is (assuming that the tachometer itself is not suspect) caused by only two things:

1. The Hall Sender in the distributor wherein either the Hall unit itself is failing or the wiring to it is failing; or
2. A crack in the printed circuit board inside your ECU. These cracks can be repaired by ECU rebuilders, by the way.

Has your van ever cut out when, at the same time, the tach needle was bouncing around? If so, then one of the above two problems likely caused it. In the scenario you experienced today, the cut out would not be so noticeable due to you coasting off-throttle.
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[Ahwahnee]

The coil and the fuel pump relay are two items I have had fail from engine heat but then recover when given a chance to cool down.

Could be the other issues noted, just throwing those 2 into the mix.

[mikemtnbike]

Ditto on fuel pump, which is weird because it so far from the engine/exhaust, but my stalling after 2 or so hours of hard running and then not moving (no air circulation) restarts in 15 minutes or so problem went away after replacing fuel pump.

I think the relays for both the fuel pump and the ECU can be negatively effected by heat as they go bad too- check those.

And yes on hall sender/tach bouncing. Mine was because my ground wire was breaking on the harness for the hall.
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1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual

[VicVan]

Hi,

Check
1/ Ignition switch
2/ Safety switch on automatic transmission lever
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'90 Little Blue Truck, 2WD auto, FAS GenV 2.0 NA (AVH)

[felixbobcat]

[felixbobcat]

[Abscate]

Not a Vanagon expert but the OXS Light I start just a mileage counter triggered by a box. It probably lights in key on as a test

This points TO an interruption in primary power to the ignition as one problem area to explore
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.ssS!

[Vanagon Nut]

[felixbobcat]

So I'm still having the same stall/dying issue. When the outside temp is above 85F and the van is warm it will die. It only happens in stop and go traffic where there is reduced airflow for cooling. Van loses power then shuts off. After it cools down it starts again.

I've noticed that the ECU is quite warm when this happens. It is mounted under the seat so it gets no airflow. I have also swapped the ECU with another used one and the problem persists.

I replaced the Fuel Pump relay and the Current Supply relay.

Any ideas?

[danfromsyr]

your fuel pump may very well be dying.
I've had similiar symptoms and changing the pump corrected it on 3 of our vans.

always in the heat and heat soaked driving.

also check/change your filter, if it's flowing slowly it'll overwork the pump making it worse.
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[oceanair]

A few things about the fuel pump -- it may be dying, that is possible, but it is not over heating if it is getting fuel. It is cooled by the fuel, which when idling has most of the fuel going through the circuit and back into the tank, so it is circulating and then returning to the 3/4 full tank and then mixed in.

Vapor lock happens when the system is not circulating and over heated fuel vaporizes and vapor cannot be pumped.

Check your fuel pressure if you think it's fuel related and consider the old relays. But it's not overheating.
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84 Vanagon Pop Top Conversion from Tin Top, 1970 Ghia - all sweet rides! Love em!
Previous: Green 72 Tin Top, White 72 Westy, Blue 64 Beetle, Yellow 71 Squareback, 2014 Jetta TDI Wagon - wish I could have them all back!

[felixbobcat]

My first thought was a bad fuel pump. The second time it stalled on me I was able to quickly check the bleeder valve over the engine. There was fuel present at the valve.

Would that be the case if the pump was not working? I also checked the pump to see if it was hot and it was cool.

Anyway I just ordered new fuel pump.

[oceanair]

If there is fuel there it did not stop running because of a lack of fuel. If it was cool it did not overheat. If there is sufficient pressure then it is working correctly.

Does not sound like you need a fuel pump. If it dies suddenly, I would suspect Hall Sensor related, but that is a guess.
_________________
84 Vanagon Pop Top Conversion from Tin Top, 1970 Ghia - all sweet rides! Love em!
Previous: Green 72 Tin Top, White 72 Westy, Blue 64 Beetle, Yellow 71 Squareback, 2014 Jetta TDI Wagon - wish I could have them all back!

[felixbobcat]

I should add that one time that it happened and after I was able to get it started, I drove it to my destination which was about two miles. I shut it off and checked the fuel pump and it was warmer then what I thought it should be for something that is cooled by the fluid traveling through it.

Can a Fuel Injected engine suffer vapor lock? I thought that was a problem only in naturally aspirated engines.

[danfromsyr]

in slow traffic, hot motor and radiator fan blowing often
the fuel isn't cool enough to cool the pump.

add in an aging pump and it doesn't take much to slow it down.. and that equals less pressure.
less pressure can allow vapor lock in the fuel manifolds at the injectors.
which also gather alot of heat from the exhaust

I've felt fuel pumps nearly as hot as the pavement in the sun.. makes for unhappy idling
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[bettingonvans]

Good info mikemtnbike. If my symptoms return I will throw my spare fuel pump at the problem.

I had this exact problem though. The van would run fine on hot days until it was warm, and then fight to prevent from stalling/eventually stall in traffic. It would also be very difficult to restart after short stops that do not allow time to cool down.

Art of Import Workshop in Hailey was kind enough to let me do some debugging in front of his shop. Great guy, has some good stories. I replaced our fuel filter there because mine was original and it did seem that it was starved for fuel. It was still fighting to keep running. Art suggested I install my spare ignition coil next. After that, we restarted the van without the O2 sensor plugged in and it ran well. I plugged the O2 sensor back in and it's run well since. I'm not sure why my symptoms would have disappeared after that but would love to hear an explanation from someone more knowledgeable.

It's still hard to start when warm though. I have to run the starter for a few seconds, fail to start, and then run the starter for a few more seconds. Always starts the second time. Is that normal?

Could be worth mention that my fuel pump is original.
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1990 Westfalia, GW2.2, Peloquins TBD