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Clutch cable adjustment
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baywndwjunkie
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:19 am    Post subject: Clutch cable adjustment Reply with quote

Hello all-
I know this question has been asked many times. I am having trouble adjusting the clutch cable play on my 77 westy. I just dropped the trans and replaced it with a new one from Rancho transmissions in SoCal. I re-used the cable as it was just replaced about 3 months ago. The clutch is engaging as soon as i put any pressure on the pedal.
I did a search here on the forums and came up with several solutions from "cable too long or using spacers, etc..." but the topics mainly addressed the adjustment of a new cable (which seem to be longer now??)
Back on topic..I adjusted the wing nut until about 1/16" from the trans lever as stated in the bentley manual. I guess my question is would adjusting the wing nut counter clockwise give more "free play" on the pedal before the clutch engages? I am trying to do this by myself so pushing down the pedal while adjusting wing nut would be quite a feat!
Thank you for any positive input you may have and for reading this long winded description. Smile
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There shouldn't be any gap between the wingnut and the lever, infact there should be a bit of preload on the levers spring.

Gaps and pushing the pedal as you adjust?, I think you have misinterpreted something in the Bentley.

Turn the wingnut clockwise until you can push the clutch pedal down around 2"-3" with a single finger (requires a buddy or lots of crawling under and back out), the resistance should increase significantly if you try pushing further. Road test and repeat, screwing the wingnut towards the front of the bus makes the clutch engage with the pedal closer to the floor.
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baywndwjunkie
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Busdaddy-
Sorry for the descrption..there is no gap between the wingnut and the transaxle lever. From what I read in the bentley was there should be about 1/16" from the trans lever and the threaded portion of the cable. Basically I have the wingnut tightened down about as far as it will go. So I am assuming that if I back that off it should increase the play in the pedal. Well time to spend yet another day under the bus!! Smile
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch cable adjustment Reply with quote

baywndwjunkie wrote:

Back on topic..I adjusted the wing nut until about 1/16" from the trans lever as stated in the bentley manual. I guess my question is would adjusting the wing nut counter clockwise give more "free play" on the pedal before the clutch engages? I am trying to do this by myself so pushing down the pedal while adjusting wing nut would be quite a feat!


Lets work on the terminology a little. A clutch engages when you raise your foot from the pedal to make the car move. A clutch disengages when you push the pedal down, severing the link between the engine and transmission

The Bentley calls for only 5/8 -1 inch of freeplay. I usually look for an inch or more.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baywndwjunkie wrote:
Basically I have the wingnut tightened down about as far as it will go. So I am assuming that if I back that off it should increase the play in the pedal. Well time to spend yet another day under the bus!! Smile


So is the clutch engaging just as the pedal lifts off the floor? or just before it reaches it's upper stop?
If it's coming on near the floor you need to back off the wing nut (CCW, viewed from rear), if it's near the upper stop you may have to add some washers to the end of the bowden tube.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think of it this way: The more you thread the nut onto the cable, the less freeplay there will be. What you want is to put a ruler or tape measure between the floor of the bus and the clutch pedal. Make it so that it is in the line of travel that the pedal moves. Look at the tape/ruler and push on the clutch pedal with your hand. You should feel easy movement with little to no resistance and then it hits the harder part where you are starting to push on the clutch. That measurement is your freeplay. Turn the wingnut onto the cable more to make that measurement smaller or unscrew the wingnut like you are taking it off to increase it. If for any reason you can't feel any freeplay when the nut is almost all the way off, then something is wrong with your installation. In this example above if you took the wingnut off by completely unscrewing it, the pedal would have so much freeplay (100%) that it would travel all the way to the floor and never allow you to shift. If you did the oppisite and screwed the wingnut in until the clutch started to slip like you were stepping on the pedal, you would have zero freeplay.
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baywndwjunkie
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gents- Thank you for al of your input..much appreciated. I think you have answered my questions. Sorry for the askewed terminology..I am new to this..I will say however that I am proud that I was able to remove the engine and trans and reinstall it without any real prior knowledge! Between the Samba, The bentley and the Muir guide I feel as if I can do most of these repairs myself now! Cheers!!
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am having problems with my 1978 Westy clutch and wanted to follow up on this thread. I was heading to the MVVC Volkswagen show in Michigan Sunday and stopped at a light holding my clutch pedal in while waiting for the light to change. All of a sudden the bus lurched into gear even though I had the clutch pedal to the floor.

Since I also had the brake pedal pushed the engined died out. I started the engine but could not get into any gear with the engine running. I then turned off, shifted into 1st gear then restarted. When I started the engine the Bus started moving forward even with clutch pushed to the floor. I managed to limp home.

Any ideas what happened ? Seems like clutch will not disengage correctly. I checked my clutch cable and it has no free play. I cannot push it at all with my finger as stated in this thread. It is tight with my pedal with no free play at all, and the wing nut looks like it is adjusted about all the way to the end of the cable.

Which way will help the clutch disengage ? By tighening the wing nut or loosening ? Are my symptons looking like clutch went bad or cable needs to be adjusted ?

Thank you !
Dean
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pawesty
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clutch.
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Change out the clutch cable first, before you change out the clutch (which is your next step). I am with pawesty here, I think your pressure plate is toast, but the cable might be down to its last strand. You also need to inspect the bowden tube to make sure the front weld that holds it in place is still there.

Tighter or "shorter" on the cable will reduce the free play.

Buy one of these and your fingers will thank you.

http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=TZE0023&cartid=
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enjoispammy8
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

little tip, put the bus in neutral at red lights. the less time the clutch pedal is down, the better.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Randy in Maine wrote:
Change out the clutch cable first, before you change out the clutch (which is your next step). I am with pawesty here, I think your pressure plate is toast, but the cable might be down to its last strand. You also need to inspect the bowden tube to make sure the front weld that holds it in place is still there.

Tighter or "shorter" on the cable will reduce the free play.

Buy one of these and your fingers will thank you.

http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=TZE0023&cartid=


I will be re-installing my trans and clutch cable soon and are reading a bunch of forums. A few posts have recommendations for something like this but the link is no longer any good. Any idea what tool they are suggesting here?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch cable adjustment Reply with quote

riding the clutch is a sure way to trash the main thrust bearing. Likely the cable, lever, or cross arm broke in the lurch while at a light scenario.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhnwS71 wrote:
Randy in Maine wrote:

http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=TZE0023&cartid=


I will be re-installing my trans and clutch cable soon and are reading a bunch of forums. A few posts have recommendations for something like this but the link is no longer any good. Any idea what tool they are suggesting here?


https://www.jbugs.com/product/5810.html?utm_conten...gKlc_D_BwE

Though I've never used one… On a new cable, a light coat of grease on the threads will allow you to spin on the wingnut with no tools and your free hand can keep the cable from spinning and stressing. On an older/stiffer cable, use a small pair of vise-grips on the cable hex part to keep it from spinning. I find that a shot of PB-Blaster on the threads will allow the wingnut to spin on even the crustiest of threads. If there's any rust, that will break it, and the teflon in the spray will make threading easy.

Remove the vise-grips when done, though I've been guilty with driving through a few states with them still installed…
Robbie
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch cable adjustment Reply with quote

If you have normal hand strength, then a tools should not be necessary. Prelubing a new cable certainly helps, but in road salt country be prepared for a fight anytime you deal with the clutch cable.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

caldwell54 wrote:
I am having problems with my 1978 Westy clutch and wanted to follow up on this thread. I was heading to the MVVC Volkswagen show in Michigan Sunday and stopped at a light holding my clutch pedal in while waiting for the light to change. All of a sudden the bus lurched into gear even though I had the clutch pedal to the floor.

Since I also had the brake pedal pushed the engined died out. I started the engine but could not get into any gear with the engine running. I then turned off, shifted into 1st gear then restarted. When I started the engine the Bus started moving forward even with clutch pushed to the floor. I managed to limp home.

Any ideas what happened ? Seems like clutch will not disengage correctly. I checked my clutch cable and it has no free play. I cannot push it at all with my finger as stated in this thread. It is tight with my pedal with no free play at all, and the wing nut looks like it is adjusted about all the way to the end of the cable.

Which way will help the clutch disengage ? By tighening the wing nut or loosening ? Are my symptons looking like clutch went bad or cable needs to be adjusted ?

Thank you !
Dean



i wonder if your pilot bearing seized while waiting for the light to change

whats it do when in neutral and running, no clutch pedal action? any new noise when pressing the pedal?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch cable adjustment Reply with quote

I once helped a friend install a new clutch cable on his split. There was something that had to be wrong with either the new cable or the wing nut, because it was ridiculously difficult to spin on. There were three of us taking turns spinning it, because we had to use a pair of pliers to crank the wing nut, and could only get a few degrees of movement each try. Eventually we figured out that if you turned the cable one way and the wing nut the other way, you'd effectively get a few more degrees of movement.

We decided that it was most like the cable had been constructed with SAE threads or something, so it wasn't quite the right size. (I don't know if that was really the issue, but that was the effect.)

So I bought him and I each one of those little tools. It does come in handy and worth the $8 to throw it in with another order at least, for those times you do end up having to dick around with not-new threads.

And I second the suggestion to use some vice-grips on the cable to keep it from rotating.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch cable adjustment Reply with quote

Sorry, I just missed the part on "waiting at a stop light in gear."

Neutral is the preferred staging gear for waiting. If you are not actively using the shifter or finessing the clutch pedal up or down, there is no reason to wait or sit with the clutch pedal depressed.

Robbie
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch cable adjustment Reply with quote

Quote:
i wonder if your pilot bearing seized while waiting for the light to change


another possibility.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch cable adjustment Reply with quote

Always use vise grips to hold the cable end (adjustment side) while tightening/loosening the wingnut.
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