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EGR Demand in California
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surfbus23
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:45 pm    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

Also interested.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

ditto
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

Does anyone know what the threaded shafts pitch is on the EGR The nut appears to be 5mm The nut is on the inside of the EGR that holds the little tapered sleeve I've taken my EGR to my local metric nut and bolt guy and he couldn't match the thread pitch to anything he had

Thanks in advance

Chris
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jgilchrist
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

M5X0.8 The originals were "prevailing torque" stainless nuts. They used to be available at McMaster Carr because I ordered some last year. I didnt see a prevailing torque version when I looked just now, but 94150A340 should work with a little loctite (IMHO). Belmetric may have the prevailing torque version. They can be difficult to (both) get on and off but the value is that they resist backing out (without a thread-lock compound which could be softened by the heat).
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

be sure to clean out the tube inside th3 plenum so the EGR gases get even distributed to all cylinders from within th eplenum. You may have to soak a little carb cleaner into it for a day, run a bicycle cable into it with a drill and do it again until all the ports are de-coked
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

As an FYI - A couple of the fellows here are very close to being able to machine replacement bodies out of stainless. The prototypes are made and hopefully everything will align. I do not know if they will be offered to the public nor what the cost would be. If you are in California and need to rebuild an EGR you might want to post here so you can be contacted when this project is complete. I think one of the folks has also found some material to cut the diaphragms out of. As an FYI, if your EGR leaks either at the valve seat or the diaphragm the idle will be poor. Kudos to the fellows here working on this project for a long time. Jeff, and Ramon, and I think Robbie is in the loop too. With the ability to correctly service a factory EGR valve, and also to buy a new CARB2 catalytic convertor, most smog issues that the California bus owners have should be resolved for awhile. Again, there will be an ability to make more but I don't know what the final cost will be. Also I think that they could only be obtained as a part to fix an existing EGR because if they were sold as a complete or new unit CARB might need to issue an EO. Kinda like they would be used along with the old EGR valve parts to be sure the original EGR valve was working correctly but not being replaced or modified. Basically servicing the old one to make it work right.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

I am most definitely interested. My EGR has a damaged diaphragm and the lever is broken as well.

I was planning on buying a used one but I'd prefer to have something new, even if it isn't OEM.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

I had such good results after using a new CARB2 catalytic convertor that I think iíd pass the emissions test with a blocked off EGR. Of course that wouldnít help if they actually test function of the EGR valve.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

tommu wrote:
I had such good results after using a new CARB2 catalytic convertor that I think iíd pass the emissions test with a blocked off EGR. Of course that wouldnít help if they actually test function of the EGR valve.


I wrote ARB today to see if they would require an EO to sell a replacement body and diaphragm material. The chair got back to me already and referred it to the person who can tell me if these can be sold without an EO as repair parts for an original valve. She commended those of us in this community who have gone the extra mile to keep our buses running clean. It matters to all of us. That is all of you who go the extra mile. Too many names here to name but all who do are appreciated.

Jay Leno probably would be proud too.

SK
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

I got to ask...

if you made either repair parts or an exact replica of the part and it functioned 100% would you need the EO?

I mean...just paint the valve tell the ref whatever...I was replacing the gasket to the plenum and just cleaned and painted it...would that not fly?

just asking to ask, not start a war.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:30 am    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

This is so awesome, and I hope ARB can see the parts through as functional repair. By analogy, if you replace a non emissions part like a spark plug that does impact emissions , butís still pass smog, you are good to go.

( caveat, my understanding of smogging is weak)
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:45 am    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

I am hoping they will say no EO is needed because the part is identical and the function of the existing valve is not changed, but it is better to be sure one does not trigger some hefty fine. The Chair of ARB said she commended the folks working on this. I do not think those of us working on it would get in trouble because we are making a part to repair on our own bus. But selling these to someone else who wants one might be different.
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Ted Williams has always been my hero since the very first time my dad took me down to their dugout after a game. They flew together in WWII. Ted liked to fish. Maybe as I get older it's time to do some fishing too. Smile Have a great day with your bus!

To Preserve YOUR Freedom of Speech, DO NOT BUY FROM AMAZON, USE FACEBOOK, TWITTER, Or GOOGLE.

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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

tommu wrote:
I had such good results after using a new CARB2 catalytic convertor that I think iíd pass the emissions test with a blocked off EGR. Of course that wouldnít help if they actually test function of the EGR valve.


The problem I am starting to see, based on my last check of my 1981 Westfalia, is that there is a very rapidly shrinking body of people that even know what the hell they were looking at with an air cooled Volkswagen engine. EO orders be damned. What is the point of doing it right if the lowest common denominator is a mildly ignorant and mostly apathetic tech that gives the final sign-of?

If thatís not bad enough, the smog techs donít always have the right information. My 1981 Westfalia with California emissions came factory equipped with mechanical EGR, but his manual at his shop showed no EGR was available that year so we got into a minor argument over it. Ultimately, he accepted the Bentley version.

So I took it to a different shop. He understood that it is supposed to have mechanical EGR but he also manipulated the control arm for the EGR and I said it is supposed to change the idle engine RPM when the valve opens, and mine did not. The Vanagon Bentley said otherwise, and did not specify the EGR test the way he did it.

You can politely argue with facts in hand with your Smog tech all day, and it will just make it worse for you. They have the Scepter of Stupidity in their hands, and aren't going to risk their license over some old Volkswagen. They will simply say misinterpret Bentley, say no, or Fail you.

So... I expect that within the next five years most of us are going to see the inability to get a smog check done without a lot of problems that are not our fault. Not because we donít have the right parts and we can make our engines run clean; itís because: 1) Youíre not going to find enough shops that are knowledgeable. And 2) Youíre going to find it increasingly difficult to find a smog shop with the treadmill which is required for our model years.

Question Are we supposed to make a weekend roadtrip to some big city to find the few remaining shops that can handle a smog check?
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Last edited by Wasted youth on Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

Wasted youth wrote:
Are we supposed to make a weekend roadtrip to some big city to find the few remaining shops that can handle it?

Either that or move to a non-smog check state.

I had lived the majority of my 60 years in California, and thought there was no place better to live. But I'm beginning to understand the view of the California bashers. The taxes, regulations and prices are astounding. Since moving to Florida, my cost of living has dropped dramatically. Gas is $2/gal less than when I lived in CA, and the cost of electricity is so crazy cheap.
I'm not at the point of saying I like Florida better, but it sure has its benefits. Like...NO smog checks.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

KentPS wrote:
Wasted youth wrote:
Are we supposed to make a weekend roadtrip to some big city to find the few remaining shops that can handle it?

Either that or move to a non-smog check state.

I had lived the majority of my 60 years in California, and thought there was no place better to live. But I'm beginning to understand the view of the California bashers. The taxes, regulations and prices are astounding. Since moving to Florida, my cost of living has dropped dramatically. Gas is $2/gal less than when I lived in CA, and the cost of electricity is so crazy cheap.
I'm not at the point of saying I like Florida better, but it sure has its benefits. Like...NO smog checks.


Kent, I completely understand that and agree with you to a large part. Take it a full stride forward, and learn a new language. Think about that.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

Quote:
he also manipulated the control arm for the EGR and I said it is supposed to change the idle engine RPM when the valve opens, and mine did not.


Steve - opening the egr should cause the engine rpm to change, stumble or die when opened at idle. If not then the tube is blocked or the tube in the plenum is plugged up with coke. That said, I know what you mean and it has been a concern for the ARB and BAR for sometime now. Classic cars in general do not warrant the cost of maintaining all the smog shop equipment and training needed to test them. Newer cars are mostly self-testing. With a code reader one can see quickly if there are any trouble codes stored. The cats have an upstream and down stream O2 sensor so they can even read the efficiency of the catalytic convertor. The state is trying to decide what to do with us - whether to move the exemption year, or to charge a fee to us to use somewhere else to offset the smog we might make. There are those who would like to see all the old cars off the road completely and in museums. Some California Democrat politicians have even made attempts to ban gasoline cars completely (AB 1745 in the 2018 session, and remarks made by ARB in San Diego May 2019). One thing for sure, none of us want to go back to the eye burning smog of the 1960's. As for CO2 emissions - that is a different issue and IMHO unless the whole world is willing to substantially reduce the birthing rate for many centuries to come it won't be easily solved - although the Swiss have a process now to convert atmospheric CO2 to alcohol.

Kent PS - yes the cost of living there is a lot less. Make sure you are protected re hurricane insurance. Florida is a beautiful state. I love Miami and also the panhandle. Although gone now, folks lived in Fort Walton Beach and I spent many weekends there with them when I was flying all over the country training new staff for a national lender in th emid 1990s. California gas taxes just went up again and everything is getting unbearably expensive. Electric power is now time of day use in most of the state. Power here between 5 pm and 8 pm is 3X as expensive as it is early morning. In part it is why I retired. Why fight with the state about no cost of living raises while they are uping the cost of everything during the hours the average Joe is off work. They pay me as much to retire and stay home, and I can take advantage of the cheaper costs on everything - and have time to work on my bus too.
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Ted Williams has always been my hero since the very first time my dad took me down to their dugout after a game. They flew together in WWII. Ted liked to fish. Maybe as I get older it's time to do some fishing too. Smile Have a great day with your bus!

To Preserve YOUR Freedom of Speech, DO NOT BUY FROM AMAZON, USE FACEBOOK, TWITTER, Or GOOGLE.

End the War Against the Middle Class and Poor! ETWAU ~ http://etwau.org
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:36 am    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

Steve, I pretty much agree with everything you said, including how introducing exhaust gas into the fuel/air mixture at idle should cause a change. But he did not test it properly. He tested the way he knew how, which is technically different. That matters to me because I see passing a smog check is all about technical compliance. I suffer a problem that most employed people suffer: there is the way you know it should be done, then there are the damned rules of how the company wants it done.

FWIW> 1981 model year - California, page 26.4 and 26.5 shows California mechanical EGR valve, then shows how to test and adjust. No mention of manipulation at idle.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
the Swiss have a process now to convert atmospheric CO2 to alcohol.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:21 am    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

I think it's extremely admirable that people have followed through. I still think the answer is the diaphragm. Unless your egr "valve seats" are not close to sealing with the stainless pieces a simple lapping and a new diaphragm will do the trick. For those of us that can't find a good body....I still think installing "valve seats" as Len does would be a more viable solution than recreating the entire body.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: EGR Demand in California Reply with quote

New rule - you can't bitch about the cost of another state unless your State doesn't live off the Federal government. You can find out where your State is by visit taxfoundation.org

Results are suprising to many.

Thanks to those who work this project to keep Busses on the road AND the air clean. Yess, there are two essssessss in Busses.

Laughing
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