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rrankin Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2004 Posts: 287 Location: Austin Texas
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:44 pm Post subject: Late model Mexi-Beetle engine? |
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Has anyone tried to transplant or install a late model 1998-2003 Air-cooled mexi-beetle fuel injected / hydraulic lifter engine into a Thing?
I rebuild my engine last in 1995/6 and I've been driving it mostly daily since. It's leaking and tired. The transmission is leaking now too... so I bought a TDI to drive while I sort my Thing out.
I started to ask around locally and found a local who's running a mexi-beetle (01) in his 63 daily driver. He drives everywhere and has put over 1 million (yes, he doesn't fly) miles on the engine.
I attribute the longevity of my current engine to it being very stock. . . It still runs, just leaks and well might as well do a major refresh.
My local friend went to Nuevo Laredo and found an 01 beetle wrecked in the front and had someone get it running and registered in MX and drove it across the bridge. He trailered the car brought it home where he transplanted the engine and Fuel Injection to his 63.
I thought about trying to buy a turnkey from VW MX but from what I can tell they don't have them anymore.
Any thoughts? Suggestions?
Thanks!! _________________ '74 Thing [Fritz]
Austin, TX |
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mondshine Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006 Posts: 2765 Location: The World's Motor Capital
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: Late model Mexi-Beetle engine? |
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Something to look at would be the shape of the sheet metal cylinder covers on the Mexi-Beetle engine. On (FI) Mexi-Beetles, the hole in the engine compartment floor is elliptically shaped, rather than rectangular.
I assume this was done to allow additional clearance for the injectors and the fuel manifolds that supply them as the body is dropped onto the chassis at the factory.
(I have actually seen a couple of very late model Things with this same elliptical engine cutout.)
This is not to say that the Mexi-Beetle couldn't be used, but you would need to use your old sheet metal cylinder covers (to match the shape of the hole in your Thing's engine compartment floor), and install the engine without the injectors. With the engine in place, you could re-install the injectors.
It will probably be a tight fit, but not impossible.
My Thing has had CIS fuel injection since the 1990's.
In the photo, you can see that the injectors are pretty tight to the engine seal, and I can only imagine that the injectors on the Mexi-Beetle intakes would be a similarly tight fit (without the elliptically shaped hole in the engine compartment floor.
Other than that, your plan sounds good. Get all of the associated electronics and wiring harnesses from the donor car.
None of this stuff was around 20+ years ago when I did my conversion to fuel injection, and since I'm in the twilight years of Thing ownership, I will stick with what I've got.
But I always thought the late Mexi-Beetle FI setup would be great, especially if controlled by a Megasquirt brain.
Good luck, Mondshine |
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Joe 20 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2005 Posts: 655 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: Late model Mexi-Beetle engine? |
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If you have a TDI to drive why not just have your engine/trans rebuilt? |
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rrankin Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2004 Posts: 287 Location: Austin Texas
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Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: Late model Mexi-Beetle engine? |
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Joe 20 wrote: |
If you have a TDI to drive why not just have your engine/trans rebuilt? |
Couple of reasons...
The Maxi-Beetle FI engine runs cooler than my current engine... It's only getting hotter and dryer in Austin, TX.
As much as I love my TDI, I know I will want to drive my Thing very frequently. Having the added reliability and lower maintenance is a good thing. _________________ '74 Thing [Fritz]
Austin, TX |
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rrankin Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2004 Posts: 287 Location: Austin Texas
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Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Late model Mexi-Beetle engine? |
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mondshine wrote: |
Something to look at would be the shape of the sheet metal cylinder covers on the Mexi-Beetle engine. On (FI) Mexi-Beetles, the hole in the engine compartment floor is elliptically shaped, rather than rectangular.
I assume this was done to allow additional clearance for the injectors and the fuel manifolds that supply them as the body is dropped onto the chassis at the factory.
(I have actually seen a couple of very late model Things with this same elliptical engine cutout.)
This is not to say that the Mexi-Beetle couldn't be used, but you would need to use your old sheet metal cylinder covers (to match the shape of the hole in your Thing's engine compartment floor), and install the engine without the injectors. With the engine in place, you could re-install the injectors.
It will probably be a tight fit, but not impossible.
[...snip...]
Other than that, your plan sounds good. Get all of the associated electronics and wiring harnesses from the donor car.
[...snip...]
But I always thought the late Mexi-Beetle FI setup would be great, especially if controlled by a Megasquirt brain.
Good luck, Mondshine |
I figured I would be using the original tin work since that's what my friend did on his 63. I didn't know about the injector angle. That worries me. I'll have to see if I can measure it to determine what would be needed or if it'll fit.
I want to use the Mexi ECU because it's fully ODB ][ Compliant with a standard plug for tuning and monitoring.
I figured the vintage speed muffler would be ideal. It's just finding an engine and harness at this point. _________________ '74 Thing [Fritz]
Austin, TX |
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mondshine Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006 Posts: 2765 Location: The World's Motor Capital
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Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: Late model Mexi-Beetle engine? |
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Good luck with the project!
I too have the Vintage Speed Thing muffler, as my OE VW muffler finally died after 35 years of use. The VS muffler is bigger, louder, and uglier than the original, but it's probably the best choice available for '74's.
I actually met the guy last year at Things West in LA, who paid well over a grand for the last NOS '74 muffler on ebay. (I paid a hundred bucks for mine at the VW dealer in 1983, and I thought that was outrageous.)
If the injector to engine seal clearance gives you problems, consider using the "H" profile foam engine seal as seen on Type 4 powered busses. I have seen it used on a couple of Things, and it looked OK.
By the way, since you mentioned your TDI, now that would be a great Thing engine
Good luck, Mondshine |
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Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17273 Location: Left coast, Canada
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Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: Late model Mexi-Beetle engine? |
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rrankin wrote: |
I figured I would be using the original tin work since that's what my friend did on his 63. I didn't know about the injector angle. That worries me.
I want to use the Mexi ECU because it's fully ODB ][ Compliant with a standard plug for tuning and monitoring. |
Don't worry about your engine bay, it all fits. The only thing you have to do is install the injectors after you install the engine, then remove the injectors before you remove the engine.
VW made the engine bay wider on FI cars so you wouldn't have to do this, but they didn't do such a great job, and in Mex, they report it is common to damage the injectors if you don't take them out first.
The Mex FI system is NOT OBD II. _________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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rrankin Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2004 Posts: 287 Location: Austin Texas
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Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:53 am Post subject: Re: Late model Mexi-Beetle engine? |
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Bruce wrote: |
[...snip...]
The Mex FI system is NOT OBD II. |
It's not? Do you know what it is?
Is it difficult to install/remove the injectors?
Thanks! _________________ '74 Thing [Fritz]
Austin, TX |
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181īrn Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2015 Posts: 52 Location: Norway
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Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Late model Mexi-Beetle engine? |
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I converted my engine to FI using the kit from the dub shop:
http://thedubshop.com/mexican-fuel-injection-package-with-ignition-type-1/
pretty easy installation and since it is based on megasquirt it is relatively easy to tune with tunerstudio. The map Mario has in it is pretty close.
My 181 actually has the same engine bay as the mexico efi bugs so space is not an issue. The injectors and fuel rails are pretty easy to remove if you don't have enough space.
Alex |
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mondshine Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006 Posts: 2765 Location: The World's Motor Capital
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Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Late model Mexi-Beetle engine? |
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181'rn-
Please post some detailed photos of your installation.
Thanks! |
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rrankin Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2004 Posts: 287 Location: Austin Texas
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Late model Mexi-Beetle engine? |
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181īrn wrote: |
I converted my engine to FI using the kit from the dub shop:
http://thedubshop.com/mexican-fuel-injection-package-with-ignition-type-1/
pretty easy installation and since it is based on megasquirt it is relatively easy to tune with tunerstudio. The map Mario has in it is pretty close.
My 181 actually has the same engine bay as the mexico efi bugs so space is not an issue. The injectors and fuel rails are pretty easy to remove if you don't have enough space.
Alex |
Hey Alex,
I'd love to see detailed photos of your engine!
Thanks! _________________ '74 Thing [Fritz]
Austin, TX |
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181īrn Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2015 Posts: 52 Location: Norway
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Late model Mexi-Beetle engine? |
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Hi there,
I can take some pictures next time i am at the garage.
Alex |
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181īrn Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2015 Posts: 52 Location: Norway
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Late model Mexi-Beetle engine? |
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Here are some pics from the engine bay. This is a spare motor i got for cruising around.
Mexico tb and manifold. You also need the alternator stand. The mexico one has more clearance to allow for the double runners. The manifold mounts to where the fuel pump used to sit
Mexico fuel rail and end castings. Modern injectors fit by trimming the original o-rings. I split them in half.
Fuel pressure regulator and ign4 coil. The distributor is there to hold the drive axle in place. I havent bothered removing it yet.
Alex |
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KAmes Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014 Posts: 876 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: Late model Mexi-Beetle engine? |
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181īrn wrote: |
Here are some pics from the engine bay. This is a spare motor i got for cruising around.
Mexico tb and manifold. You also need the alternator stand. The mexico one has more clearance to allow for the double runners. The manifold mounts to where the fuel pump used to sit
Mexico fuel rail and end castings. Modern injectors fit by trimming the original o-rings. I split them in half.
Fuel pressure regulator and ign4 coil. The distributor is there to hold the drive axle in place. I havent bothered removing it yet.
Alex |
That's interesting. What is the ignition triggering off of for timing? |
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181īrn Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2015 Posts: 52 Location: Norway
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Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Late model Mexi-Beetle engine? |
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I have a trigger wheel mounted behild the crank pulley with a VR sensor. This a package that Mario @thedubshop offers.
I am running batch fire and wasted spark ignition.
Alex |
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rrankin Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2004 Posts: 287 Location: Austin Texas
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Late model Mexi-Beetle engine? |
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That's all really amazing... Really looking forward to getting to this with my Thing.
Thanks for the pictures! _________________ '74 Thing [Fritz]
Austin, TX |
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