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OG Velvet
Samba Family Man
Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 2168
Location: Portland, OR
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 Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:03 pm Post subject: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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My 77 westy suffers from sloppy shifting. I do need to replace the shift rod bushings and that is in the plan when I remove the tranny. From searching and reading here I know that I should do a refresh (IE removing nosecone and bell housing, replacing seals and the little ball) The bus doesn't pop out of gear at all. It does leak a bit out of the front seal.
Is there any way of knowing how far you need to go (or what symptoms to look for) without full cracking it open? What sort of symptoms would I look for while driving? What symptoms would I look for once it's out and doing a refresh?
Thanks!
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'67 13 Window
'77 Westy
'69 Sunroof Beetle
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sjbartnik
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5993
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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If it's not popping out of gear or making howling noises it's probably good to go indefinitely. Fix any leaks (running low on oil will kill it quick) and change the oil every 30K miles or so.
Do you have any sense (aka documentation) of the actual miles on the Bus?
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OG Velvet
Samba Family Man
Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 2168
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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I put this tranny in about 5 years ago. It was a known good used. I've probably put 35k on it. Just a wild guess.
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'67 13 Window
'77 Westy
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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did you put a plate between the diff carrier and nosecone? If not the main bearing may be wearing into the nosecone. Also the donut in there wears out.
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50332
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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| How much oil leakage is a bit? The transmission in my T-181 Thing leaks enough to mark its spot, yet I have not had to add oil in about 30,000 miles of driving. Sure I would love it if it didn't leak at all, but I am not going to pull it when all I get is a single drop of oil on the ground every other time I drive it. |
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OG Velvet
Samba Family Man
Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 2168
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| How much oil leakage is a bit? The transmission in my T-181 Thing leaks enough to mark its spot, yet I have not had to add oil in about 30,000 miles of driving. Sure I would love it if it didn't leak at all, but I am not going to pull it when all I get is a single drop of oil on the ground every other time I drive it. |
I'll post a pic tomorrow. It's about the same as yours on the ground, but it looks pretty messy by the front mount
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OG Velvet
Samba Family Man
Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 2168
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| did you put a plate between the diff carrier and nosecone? If not the main bearing may be wearing into the nosecone. Also the donut in there wears out. |
I've read where you mention this on a few posts I've read. I cannot picture what you're talking about, but once I get the nose cone off I will dig further. I've already ordered the ball/ donut thing
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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| OG Velvet wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| did you put a plate between the diff carrier and nosecone? If not the main bearing may be wearing into the nosecone. Also the donut in there wears out. |
I've read where you mention this on a few posts I've read. I cannot picture what you're talking about, but once I get the nose cone off I will dig further. I've already ordered the ball/ donut thing |
Check out Colin's write-up here:
https://itinerant-air-cooled.com/viewtopic.php?p=202534#p202534
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:19 am Post subject: Re: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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The “donut” is a small plastic swivel ball the the selector in the nosecone inserts into. The plastic ball has a steel replacement you can get. It sits in the rounded portion of the section in the lower left corner of the first pic. Shift your trans into neutral before taking things apart. Pics from the gallery from Gumboguy.
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:31 am Post subject: Re: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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| OG Velvet wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| did you put a plate between the diff carrier and nosecone? If not the main bearing may be wearing into the nosecone. Also the donut in there wears out. |
I've read where you mention this on a few posts I've read. I cannot picture what you're talking about, but once I get the nose cone off I will dig further. I've already ordered the ball/ donut thing |
there is a main bearing in the trans that slowly spins in its housing as the trans ages. VW put a half moon key in later trans but even with that the bearing still slowly works back and forth a minimum amount and wears into the nosecone. Over time this allows the main shaft to migrate towards the nosecone, and that causes the gear alignment and shifter forks to have issues. The easiest fix before the problem gets bad is to put a thin steel plate between the nosecone and diff housing when putting the nosecone back on. Weddle sells it. So do other vendors. It is cut to fit the trans and has cutouts in it to allow everything to fit properly. There are probably 30 write ups here on thesamba about it.
Here is a thread where questions are posted. The image is that of a used one on a late bay. You can see the wear even in the steel.
| ivwshane wrote: |
I'm doing some basic maintenance while my engine and transmission are out and I need to re seal the nose cone after replacing the selector link ball joint with a metal one and the shaft seal.
I have a couple of questions though.
I have a gasket for the nose cone which I assume goes between the steel plate and the nose cone but does the steel plate need to be sealed on the transmission side? If so, what is recommended?
My steel plate has a groove in it (crescent shaped) should it be replaced? If so, is there a part # for it or a proper name to search for?
My inner shift lever's shaft looks worn, does it also need to be replaced (there are no cracks in it)?
Lastly, is my 3 rib transmission correct/stock for my, supposedly, 2lt engine (GE case with solid lifters)? If not, what should it be and what are the benefits of changing it out?
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OG Velvet
Samba Family Man
Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 2168
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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Thank you all for the replies. I plan to do this over spring break (in a couple weeks).
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60vwnewengland
Twin #2
Joined: June 25, 2003
Posts: 1784
Location: District of Columbia & Cape Cod
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:08 am Post subject: Re: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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Hey Velvet. Did a refresh like you’re thinking. It was fairly simple. Here’s a video for replacing the donut.
Link
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8568
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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| SGKent wrote: |
The image is that of a used one on a late bay. You can see the wear even in the steel.
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That is horrific, Steve. What sort of driving could hammer the steel like that?
Colin
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OG Velvet
Samba Family Man
Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 2168
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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Got the engine and tranny out. Here's what I'm looking at in the nosecone. Thoughts?
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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| Amskeptic wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
The image is that of a used one on a late bay. You can see the wear even in the steel.
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That is horrific, Steve. What sort of driving could hammer the steel like that?
Colin |
normal. My understanding is that they all do it. You probably just see the wear in the aluminum nose cone, which is a lot deeper.
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16852
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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| OG Velvet wrote: |
| Thoughts? |
first thought is why on Gods green earth do people open sensitive shit up without thoroughly douching it off before opening it?
beyond that replace the ball in your hand, check selector bracket for any cracks and shove a steel plate in there just because
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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OG Velvet
Samba Family Man
Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 2168
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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Understood about the cleanliness. Point taken, but it’s clean now and I was pretty careful.
I’ll get the ball and plate tomorrow. Do I need two gaskets when I use the plate? One for each side?
Nosecone and front mount cleaned up pretty good. That front seal was leaking horribly.
Going to super clean and grease the shift rod assembly today while it’s nice. While I’m at it, I’m going to clean out the engine compartment. I’ve already replaced the oil cooler that had badly crunched seals (turns out the oil cooler was leaking anyway, so I replaced it)
I also get to do everyone’s favorite job; regreasing CVS!
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16852
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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| OG Velvet wrote: |
I’ll get the ball and plate tomorrow. Do I need two gaskets when I use the plate? One for each side? |
it's a 6 of 1 1/2 dozen of the other kind of deal. I HATE HATE HATE oil leaks. when I did mine I did 2 gaskets on 1 trans with some gear oil rated RTV just barely spread on the gasket...as in pull it thru your fingers...just enough
I did another trans which was on borrowed time and just used RTV. no leaks on either.
cv's....barf
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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| Take the nosecone, and sand out any groove the mainshaft bearing has made in the gasket sealing face. You can use sandpaper on a flat surface, like a piece of glass, or very flat counter top. You could start with coarse paper, and finish up with 320-400. That way the nose cone will have full surface contact with the metal plate when you install it. |
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OG Velvet
Samba Family Man
Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 2168
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: How to tell if I need a transaxle rebuild? |
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Ran out of daylight, but I'm almost done. Just need to put the exhaust back on and hook up a few more hoses and wires, then start it up.
List of stuff done...
Replaced oil cooler and seals
Replaced oil filler gasket
Cleaned up (scrubbed off a lot of oily dirt)
Replaced a lot of missing tin screws
New CV boots (including cleaning and regreasing CVs... barf...)
Replaced all shift rod bushings and the rear coupler (that was REALLY worn)
Replaced the ball in the nosecone and added the steel spacer
Changed oil and filter
Drained and replaced gear oil in tranny
New clutch and pressure plate
New throwout bearing
Replaced a suspect fuel line on rail
I'll report back when I take it for a test drive.
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