78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange

[markd89]

Hi All,

So my bus has Girling style calipers and they need revamping due to a leak.

I ordered a set of Girling style calipers from Autozone. What they gave me has the cross shaped ATE spring (7 in the diagram) so I had them take them back.

I ordered another set of Girling's from Rockauto.com and they are the same.

Argh!

Question 1: Someone told me that the calipers are interchangeable with the difference being where the brake line enters. I have braided flexible brake lines, so I'm thinking maybe I'm OK. Is that true?

Question 2: The new calipers don't come with the retainer (06) below. Can I use the ones from my Girling calipers (6A)?

Thanks!
Mark

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78 TDI Sunroof Bus
Los Angeles

[tristessa]

The inlet port is in a different place, but otherwise they're interchangeable as a complete unit. Can't speak to the retainers from experience but I can't think why the Girling part wouldn't work as long as it fits the ATE piston correctly -- they both use the same pads so the gross dimensions should be the same.

With flexible braided lines you should be golden on the fluid connections. I've been able to **carefully** re-bend the OE hardline to to the caliper when swapping brand to brand, but it always had me puckering my shorts during the process...

[SGKent]

get a hold of Clatter. He is the last person here to successfully navigate the Girling Challenge.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[ivwshane]

What's the reason for sticking with girling and not just getting ATE calipers?
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77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab

[Hoody]

To answer your first question about the soft lines no. A hard line is used to enter the caliper. As far as the retaining plates go no. The Girling plates are completely different. I had to search the entire frickin planet to find Clatter a rebuild kit for the Girling calipers. And I don’t know if they were actually correct or not. If you want the easiest solution with the least expense go to the ATE calipers. Either get a new hard line bent to accommodate them or bend one yourself. There is a caveat in terms of the ATE calipers though. Places will tell you that they are the correct ATE calipers for your Bus, but....they are very likely the later Vanagon calipers that have a different location where the hard line attaches. This really is not an issue since you will be bending a new hard line. My bet is that you are receiving these later calipers which is why the hard lines will not connect properly. Rebuild kits for the Girling calipers are basically unobtanium. NOS correct ATE calipers are available but extremely expensive. Rebuild kits for the ATE calipers are readily available. So that being said I would find a set of correct ATE calipers, have them rebuilt and install them. I cannot day for certain that the connection point for the hard line is the same for the Girling and the correct ATE calipers. Hope this helps.

[markd89]

Thanks much gents!

I took some pics. It looks like the hardline does need to be bent or replaced. You can see in the pics that the port where the hydraulic connects is in a different spot.

Maybe the trick would be to have the flexible line reversed so it's going up, then the metal line could go down to the new port location.

Then I just have to figure out the retainer plate.

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78 TDI Sunroof Bus
Los Angeles

[Hoody]

Busok has the stock retaining plates. A samba member was also making these in stainless which should last forever.

[kreemoweet]

So your new calipers have ATE-style pistons? I see no reason you can't use the Girling-style retainer plates with those, unless
the pad retaining pin holes are a different size.
Or just omit the plates entirely: many have none and say they have no problems caused by that. Just make sure to
orient the pistons correctly, in either case.
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[markd89]

Thanks again, gents!

We'll try to reuse the plates for now. I'll post back next week on how it all works out.

Mark
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78 TDI Sunroof Bus
Los Angeles

[Clatter]

I took me forever to get Girling rebuild kits,
And when I did the quality was garbage compared to the OG parts.

Whatever ATE mods might need done, like bending a hard line or trimming a backing plate, are nothing compared to using a crappy rebuild kit.

It will be very soon that these Girlings need rebuilt,
And even though they have a bunch of new parts, and are blasted/painted etc.
A set of ATEs will go on at the time.

So don’t bother... Just replace with new ATE and be done.
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[markd89]

Clatter, thanks!
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78 TDI Sunroof Bus
Los Angeles

[markd89]

Posting back with the outcome...

I got the Cardone calipers from Rockauto installed and they are working nicely. We had to bend up new metal tubes as expected.

It turns out that most of the rest of the brake stuff was worn out, so unexpectedly I also got new rotors, drums, shoes, brake cylinders. It was challenging to get good quality of these parts locally but I was able to get German wheel cylinders, German drums (Zimmerman) and TRW rotors.

Back to the calipers.. These were sold as rebuilt Girlings. They are actually new Chinese ATE style calipers. I'm not sure why they want my cores back, but I will be sending them soon ($50 * 2 calipers).

The hydraulic inlet port on one caliper was machined slightly (maybe 1mm) too deep. It did finally seal OK, but the nut on the metal tube is completely flush with the caliper. The other caliper was fine.

If I was going to do this again, I would buy the calipers from Autozone, which I think are also new and Chinese and check the depth of the inlet ports. If they're not perfect, it's easier to exchange in person, also no shipping of cores.

Thanks for all the help. The bus is braking well now and no funny sounds!

Mark
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78 TDI Sunroof Bus
Los Angeles

[mikedjames]

My bus has one Girling and one ATE, and the cross shaped springs both sides.

Passes the UK MOT "vehicle safety" test which requires balanced brake operation.

I ended up making my own version of plate 6A for Girling out of some 20 thou thick stainless sheet, complete with the anti-squeal cutout.
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[markd89]

[ToolBox]

You only need the correct retainer plate if your calipers have the OE style pistons with the cutouts. The retainer kept the piston from rotating and the cutout portion in the right position. If the new semi correct calipers have a consistently flat face you only need to use whatever noise insulators come with the new pads.

[apophasis]

I have the early style ATE calipers on my '71; is there a source for those piston-locking retaining plates? I would love a stainless set, if somebody's making them.

[Amskeptic]

[apophasis]

[SGKent]

part numbers for 1971 T2 & later up to T3 ATE disc anti-rotation plates are

left 211-615-231
right 211-615-232

A quick Google found at least 4 sources in one minute worth of searching who show in stock on their webpage. There are also places who show out of stock. Prices in stock vary from $4 to $16.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[notchboy]