Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
does a Blue Sea SI-ACR Charging Relay drain starter battery?
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jocoman
Samba Member


Joined: August 11, 2016
Posts: 249
Location: Ottawa
jocoman is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:40 pm    Post subject: does a Blue Sea SI-ACR Charging Relay drain starter battery? Reply with quote

If the ACR is simply wired I.E one Plus side to house battery and the other plus side to starter battery plus a ground does it contribute to parasitic drain on the starter battery? I measure 60K from either ACR post to ground. So if my math is correct it would have a constant drain of .2ma . If this is true then it would be only a very slight or negligible drain.
Does this make sense? Otherwise do I need a switch in there someplace?
txs
_________________
'86 Westfalia 2.0L Zetec
'97 Volvo 850 AWD Turbo
" The fun never stops"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 11414
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: does a Blue Sea SI-ACR Charging Relay drain starter battery? Reply with quote

Why is 0.2ma an issue?
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

Join the Vanagon Rescue Squad on the VanAlert app.
http://vanalert.com/

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jocoman
Samba Member


Joined: August 11, 2016
Posts: 249
Location: Ottawa
jocoman is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: does a Blue Sea SI-ACR Charging Relay drain starter battery? Reply with quote

Not at all. I'm just wanting to understand this device . .2ma is peanuts if the way i am calculating is legit and would never cause a no start from the start battery.
_________________
'86 Westfalia 2.0L Zetec
'97 Volvo 850 AWD Turbo
" The fun never stops"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Paulbeard
Samba Member


Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2588
Location: Seattle
Paulbeard is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: does a Blue Sea SI-ACR Charging Relay drain starter battery? Reply with quote

I have a related question…maybe needs a thread but I'll see if anyone can answer it. I have a BlueSeas ACR and while it doesn't draw enough to worry about, it combines when I don't want it to. When I have my solar panel out and charging, the ACR will combine and lower the voltage going to the aux battery which I don't want. When it separates, the aux is lower (maybe .5V?) and then has to reclaim that. I want all the solar charge to go to the aux.

What I would perhaps like to do is prevent the ACR from combining unless the charge is coming from the alternator, ie, the motor is running. So I think I envision a relay and some way of sensing that current (the blue wire that turns off the ALT light?). Am I on on the right track? Talk to me like I am 5…
_________________
Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

Quote:
Git 'r DONE!
— dhaavers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
beach_creature
Samba Member


Joined: April 11, 2014
Posts: 424

beach_creature is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:44 pm    Post subject: Re: does a Blue Sea SI-ACR Charging Relay drain starter battery? Reply with quote

You can add a relay for the ground wire of the ACR. I would tie it in to the run only, at the fridge relay.

Option two, a manual switch on the ground.

Option three, and don't know the long term of this, but add solar (+) fused to the ignition part of th ACR, shis should separate them when the ignition connector has power. Someone else should verify this.
_________________
84 Westy
1.9TD AAZ
5spd manual with Locking Peloquin TBD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Timwhy
Samba Member


Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 3606
Location: Maine
Timwhy is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:35 am    Post subject: Re: does a Blue Sea SI-ACR Charging Relay drain starter battery? Reply with quote

Paulbeard wrote:
I have a related question…maybe needs a thread but I'll see if anyone can answer it. I have a BlueSeas ACR and while it doesn't draw enough to worry about, it combines when I don't want it to. When I have my solar panel out and charging, the ACR will combine and lower the voltage going to the aux battery which I don't want. When it separates, the aux is lower (maybe .5V?) and then has to reclaim that. I want all the solar charge to go to the aux.

What I would perhaps like to do is prevent the ACR from combining unless the charge is coming from the alternator, ie, the motor is running. So I think I envision a relay and some way of sensing that current (the blue wire that turns off the ALT light?). Am I on on the right track? Talk to me like I am 5…


I added a switch to my ACR.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary

http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shagginwagon83
Samba Member


Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 2553
Location: VA/TN
shagginwagon83 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:19 am    Post subject: Re: does a Blue Sea SI-ACR Charging Relay drain starter battery? Reply with quote

Tim you could have installed a small switch on the small ground wire on the SI_ACR. On mine I have a relay but a switch would work too.

Also, Paul - the below is a solution to your SI_ACR. Basically the batteries will only combine when the engine is on.

That being said - I believe I just took the "automatic" part OUT of the automatic charging relay. I think a simple relay would do the job.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Brandon
"Jo Ann" - 1983.5 Ivory Westfalia 1.9L 2wd
120aH aux, 200w rooftop solar, 130w portable
Dometic CFX50W fridge
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Paulbeard
Samba Member


Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2588
Location: Seattle
Paulbeard is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:05 am    Post subject: Re: does a Blue Sea SI-ACR Charging Relay drain starter battery? Reply with quote

shagginwagon83 wrote:
Basically the batteries will only combine when the engine is on.

That being said - I believe I just took the "automatic" part OUT of the automatic charging relay. I think a simple relay would do the job.



That's pretty close to what I want. It still charges automatically, it just adds a way to ignore the solar charger. In high summer I wouldn't mind seeing both batteries topped up to 13.5V but it's early yet.
_________________
Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

Quote:
Git 'r DONE!
— dhaavers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shagginwagon83
Samba Member


Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 2553
Location: VA/TN
shagginwagon83 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: does a Blue Sea SI-ACR Charging Relay drain starter battery? Reply with quote

Paulbeard wrote:


That's pretty close to what I want. It still charges automatically, it just adds a way to ignore the solar charger. In high summer I wouldn't mind seeing both batteries topped up to 13.5V but it's early yet.


The "Automatic" part of the SI_ACR can 'detect' when to bridge the batteries.

I think you could get away with telling a non-auto relay when to bridge (after the engine is on and the alternator 'excited'. I don't know what the cost is. One benefit of my setup is that after the SI_ACR is turned on, then it takes like 30 seconds to bridge - well after the engine is running.

But yes - I don't want my solar controller charging both batteries - only my aux. The only reason my starting battery would be dead is if the battery is bad/weak. I could jump myself with my aux.
_________________
Brandon
"Jo Ann" - 1983.5 Ivory Westfalia 1.9L 2wd
120aH aux, 200w rooftop solar, 130w portable
Dometic CFX50W fridge
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Paulbeard
Samba Member


Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2588
Location: Seattle
Paulbeard is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: does a Blue Sea SI-ACR Charging Relay drain starter battery? Reply with quote

shagginwagon83 wrote:

I think you could get away with telling a non-auto relay when to bridge (after the engine is on and the alternator 'excited'. I don't know what the cost is. One benefit of my setup is that after the SI_ACR is turned on, then it takes like 30 seconds to bridge - well after the engine is running.



Yeah, the 30 seconds is how the ACR works…combines after seeing a steady source of 13.5V current for 30 seconds. So it's encouraging that the solar panel output can force it to combine this early in the year.

I need to better understand the signal the blue wire carries and how/if it can trigger a relay to do this.
_________________
Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

Quote:
Git 'r DONE!
— dhaavers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shagginwagon83
Samba Member


Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 2553
Location: VA/TN
shagginwagon83 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:32 am    Post subject: Re: does a Blue Sea SI-ACR Charging Relay drain starter battery? Reply with quote

Paulbeard wrote:

I need to better understand the signal the blue wire carries and how/if it can trigger a relay to do this.


That's what I'm using - the blue wire found in the driver side battery box. That combined with a normal relay to control the ground. My wiring diagram above does what you need - ignore the 'key/ignition' part.
_________________
Brandon
"Jo Ann" - 1983.5 Ivory Westfalia 1.9L 2wd
120aH aux, 200w rooftop solar, 130w portable
Dometic CFX50W fridge
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Paulbeard
Samba Member


Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2588
Location: Seattle
Paulbeard is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:36 am    Post subject: Re: does a Blue Sea SI-ACR Charging Relay drain starter battery? Reply with quote

shagginwagon83 wrote:


That's what I'm using - the blue wire found in the driver side battery box. That combined with a normal relay to control the ground. My wiring diagram above does what you need - ignore the 'key/ignition' part.


Gotcha. Thanks. I was misreading that…
_________________
Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

Quote:
Git 'r DONE!
— dhaavers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Steve Arndt
Samba Member


Joined: August 01, 2005
Posts: 1642
Location: Boise, Idaho
Steve Arndt is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:54 am    Post subject: Re: does a Blue Sea SI-ACR Charging Relay drain starter battery? Reply with quote

Yes. The stand by current draw (parasitic draw) is in the blue sea data sheets. The reason I like this one is the much lower current draw:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Victron-Cyrix-ct-12-24V-120A-Intelligent-Battery-Combiner/171934028788
_________________
Steve
Steve's 87 Syncro project
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shagginwagon83
Samba Member


Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 2553
Location: VA/TN
shagginwagon83 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: does a Blue Sea SI-ACR Charging Relay drain starter battery? Reply with quote

Yeah I would go with Victron if I had to do it again.
_________________
Brandon
"Jo Ann" - 1983.5 Ivory Westfalia 1.9L 2wd
120aH aux, 200w rooftop solar, 130w portable
Dometic CFX50W fridge
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Paulbeard
Samba Member


Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2588
Location: Seattle
Paulbeard is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: does a Blue Sea SI-ACR Charging Relay drain starter battery? Reply with quote

shagginwagon83 wrote:
Yeah I would go with Victron if I had to do it again.


+1 on that. The one I chose was recommended by SolarBob but I would rather have the data over time that victron makes available.
_________________
Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

Quote:
Git 'r DONE!
— dhaavers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB