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Albertoprop17
Samba Member
Joined: March 15, 2016
Posts: 196
Location: Valencia (Spain)
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 Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:33 pm Post subject: Control bars for swing axle |
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Does anybody own or have driven a swing axle car with this bolt on upgrade?
I've read that this kit acts like an IRS setup, but I think it limits de travel of the suspension, swing axles can't go up and down completely perpendicular to the ground.
Does anybody make reproductions of this kit? Will it work better with a camber compensator?
Here are some photos from othe topics/sites:
Show me what do you think!!
Last edited by Albertoprop17 on Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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gimmesomeshelter
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Joined: May 08, 2004
Posts: 1466
Location: San Carlos, CA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: Control bars for swig axle |
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I've tried a number of different solutions for my swing axle woes, and the best solution by far is a camber regulator designed for 356's.
http://356enterprises.com/suspension-and-brakes-porsche-356/
You'll need to do a little fabrication to make it work, but the nice thing about it is that you can tune the amount it influences your axles by tightening or loosening the connectors on the ends. Expensive! Of course. Worth it? Yes!
Cheers,
Paul
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Robert Chambers
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Joined: August 11, 2005
Posts: 216
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: Control bars for swig axle |
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| gimmesomeshelter wrote: |
I've tried a number of different solutions for my swing axle woes, and the best solution by far is a camber regulator designed for 356's.
http://356enterprises.com/suspension-and-brakes-porsche-356/
You'll need to do a little fabrication to make it work, but the nice thing about it is that you can tune the amount it influences your axles by tightening or loosening the connectors on the ends. Expensive! Of course. Worth it? Yes!
Cheers,
Paul |
Paul,
I have adjusted the Empi Camber Compensator using different length straps. Shorter more control, longer less control. I install them on all my swing axle Beetles for better rear control. It works for me!
Bob
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Big_E_Deluxe
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Joined: September 23, 2013
Posts: 264
Location: Charlotte, NC
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Albertoprop17
Samba Member
Joined: March 15, 2016
Posts: 196
Location: Valencia (Spain)
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Control bars for swing axle |
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I found an old set of these control bars, if I buy them (fingers crossed) I will restore it and put on my oval.
I will post how they perform...
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Big_E_Deluxe
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Joined: September 23, 2013
Posts: 264
Location: Charlotte, NC
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Pirulero1986
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Joined: February 18, 2014
Posts: 50
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:41 am Post subject: Re: Control bars for swing axle |
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if someone have a set please contact me
thnaks
michele |
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Komissar
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Joined: May 18, 2008
Posts: 894
Location: Bucharest, Romania
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Control bars for swing axle |
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Hello,
Interesting accesory. Does anyone have any first-hand input on the actual use of these?
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Albertoprop17
Samba Member
Joined: March 15, 2016
Posts: 196
Location: Valencia (Spain)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:55 am Post subject: Re: Control bars for swing axle |
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I'm about to close the deal, as soon as I restore the bars I will assemble them and tell you how they perform
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jays58s
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 2133
Location: Nor-Cal
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Control bars for swig axle |
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| gimmesomeshelter wrote: |
I've tried a number of different solutions for my swing axle woes, and the best solution by far is a camber regulator designed for 356's.
http://356enterprises.com/suspension-and-brakes-porsche-356/
You'll need to do a little fabrication to make it work, but the nice thing about it is that you can tune the amount it influences your axles by tightening or loosening the connectors on the ends. Expensive! Of course. Worth it? Yes!
Cheers,
Paul |
Do you by any chance have a picture of it installed and what you modified to install it? |
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gimmesomeshelter
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2004
Posts: 1466
Location: San Carlos, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Control bars for swing axle |
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Sorry, it's not mounted on the car right now, but I'll try to describe the setup.
First, the real benefit of using this type of camber compensator is that the preload is configurable. The default configuration is to have the driver sit in the car, and have someone else attach the spring with 1/2 worth of pre-load.
Unlike your typical VW camber compensator, this one does not mount underneath the axle. Instead, it hangs a couple of inches in front of the axle, and it supposed to attach to the forward most spring plate mounting hole. This works fine on a Porsche 356, but not on a VW - the shocks are in the way. What you need to do is flip the mounting bracket around so that the spring hangs an inch or two behind the axle. If you do this, you'll notice that there isn't anything for the heim joints to attach to. What you need to do is fabricate some brackets (I used an old set of spring plates) that 1) mount to the end of the spring plates, and 2) provide a mounting location for the heim joints.
I have the brackets in my parts stash. I'll try to post a photo tomorrow.
Cheers,
Paul
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jays58s
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Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 2133
Location: Nor-Cal
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: Control bars for swing axle |
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| gimmesomeshelter wrote: |
Sorry, it's not mounted on the car right now, but I'll try to describe the setup.
First, the real benefit of using this type of camber compensator is that the preload is configurable. The default configuration is to have the driver sit in the car, and have someone else attach the spring with 1/2 worth of pre-load.
Unlike your typical VW camber compensator, this one does not mount underneath the axle. Instead, it hangs a couple of inches in front of the axle, and it supposed to attach to the forward most spring plate mounting hole. This works fine on a Porsche 356, but not on a VW - the shocks are in the way. What you need to do is flip the mounting bracket around so that the spring hangs an inch or two behind the axle. If you do this, you'll notice that there isn't anything for the heim joints to attach to. What you need to do is fabricate some brackets (I used an old set of spring plates) that 1) mount to the end of the spring plates, and 2) provide a mounting location for the heim joints.
I have the brackets in my parts stash. I'll try to post a photo tomorrow.
Cheers,
Paul |
Sounds like an awesome setup, I’d love to put it on my 59. |
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Albertoprop17
Samba Member
Joined: March 15, 2016
Posts: 196
Location: Valencia (Spain)
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Control bars for swing axle |
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I've received the control bars yesterday (thanks Ron  ). They need a restoration but it will be easy. A pair of rubber grommets, a pair of long spring plate bolts and a missing bolt on the beam attachment.
I'm a bit busy now, I will restore it in my inexsiting free time (mechanical engineering exams  )
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sled
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Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Control bars for swing axle |
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I must be the only one who doesn't think these will work correctly due to suspension geometry issues?!
I can draw it out if you can't see it in your head..
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Albertoprop17
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Joined: March 15, 2016
Posts: 196
Location: Valencia (Spain)
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Control bars for swing axle |
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| sled wrote: |
I must be the only one who doesn't think these will work correctly due to suspension geometry issues?!
I can draw it out if you can't see it in your head.. |
This system doesn't have 100% vertical movement. The rubber grommets on the inner end of the bar able the system to twist a bit.
This won't work on very lowered cars with too much camber, but on a stock or slightly lowered (a tiny negative camber) vehicle will work well.
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sled
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Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Control bars for swing axle |
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| Albertoprop17 wrote: |
| sled wrote: |
I must be the only one who doesn't think these will work correctly due to suspension geometry issues?!
I can draw it out if you can't see it in your head.. |
This system doesn't have 100% vertical movement. The rubber grommets on the inner end of the bar able the system to twist a bit.
This won't work on very lowered cars with too much camber, but on a stock or slightly lowered (a tiny negative camber) vehicle will work well. |
the swing axle rear suspension already has two fixed points at which it pivots. adding a third that is not in the same plane on all axis, will not allow it to travel unimpeded.
hit a big bump with your control bar added, and it will put massive loads onto the bar and pivots. Why is this beneficial?
its one of those things that if it worked as intended and worked WELL, then it would not be such a rare accessory that has disappeared into history.
later 69'- rear suspension works because the axle is NOT fixed.
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Albertoprop17
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Joined: March 15, 2016
Posts: 196
Location: Valencia (Spain)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Control bars for swing axle |
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I'm in the process of restoring the bars, but I don't know there to find the rubber grommets that go between the bar and the clamp. These ones allows the bar to flex a bit because of the swing axle configuration.
I need some bolts too, but I don't mind if the new ones don't match the others
The rubber grommets measure aprox. 21mm OD, 12mm ID and 10-12mm wide
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modok
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Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26787
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Control bars for swing axle |
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| Albertoprop17 wrote: |
Does anybody make reproductions of this kit? Will it work better with a camber compensator?
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I hope not. It's just whoever made that was stupid. Sorry to say, it's that simple. it's a hinge, in order for a hinge to work, the pivots must be in line |
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petrol punk
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Joined: August 21, 2007
Posts: 975
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Control bars for swing axle |
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| modok wrote: |
| Albertoprop17 wrote: |
Does anybody make reproductions of this kit? Will it work better with a camber compensator?
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I hope not. It's just whoever made that was stupid. Sorry to say, it's that simple. it's a hinge, in order for a hinge to work, the pivots must be in line |
I have to agree. I don't see how this kit does anything besides causing suspension binding.
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