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Paulbeard
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2604
Location: Seattle
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 Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:37 pm Post subject: My first tow - ABA won't start [still not solved] |
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Waiting for the AAA operative to give me a 1 mile tow. Somehow got a no spark situation that I’ll have to sort out. According to https://www.aa1car.com/library/ignition_coils.htm i have an open coil. I can smell fuel so I feel like that’s working. No way to test at the plug with the tools I have.
I think water got somewhere it shouldn’t when I was degreasing and looking for an oil leak. It ran really poorly, progressively worse before dying altogether. Battery is strong even after extended cranking. Tips and tricks welcome.
_________________
Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
— dhaavers
Last edited by Paulbeard on Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:48 am; edited 2 times in total |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32563
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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tjet 
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3533
Location: CA & NM
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: My first tow |
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Don't assume fuel pump is functioning normally if you can smell raw fuel. My fuel pump failed on a road trip. The thing that threw me off was that I assumed is was good because I could smell fuel & the engine was exhibiting a rich-running condition. I threw everything I had at it. ECU, AFM, FPR, throttle body, coil, hall pickup, cap.....
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664204&highlight= |
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Paulbeard
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2604
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start |
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More time hooking/unhooking for a less than one mile tow…
Something water-y seems likely. I had a similar situation another time coolant gushed out…I'll take up the advice offered and see what I can learn. Is there way to test for spark with just one person? I can't reach that far if I need to see the plug or test light.
_________________
Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
— dhaavers |
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Paulbeard
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2604
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start |
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Just took another look…the Hall effect sender looks fine, the wires are intact. No sign of water. It's behind the distributor so maybe didn't get any coolant on it.
This doesn't look right to me:
I have two like this. So I guess plugs are something I need. What's recommended there?
_________________
Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
— dhaavers |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22633
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start |
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Yep, those connectors have snapped off. Get all,plugs out and put a new set in and you will Bee all set.
What brand were the old ones?
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Paulbeard
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2604
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start |
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| Abscate wrote: |
Yep, those connectors have snapped off. Get all,plugs out and put a new set in and you will Bee all set.
What brand were the old ones? |
Looks like NGK which I just ordered from my FLAPS. VanCafe offers those or a Bosch but FLAPS only had the NGKs. I doubt this is my problem but it sure ain't helping…
_________________
Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
— dhaavers |
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tjet
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3533
Location: CA & NM
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start |
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| You can burn out the coil if the spark is forced to make a jump other than where it's supposed to. |
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Ahwahnee
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Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9796
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start |
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| Paulbeard wrote: |
...This doesn't look right to me:
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Does the socket on your spark plug wrench have the foam insert? Doesn't look important but if it isn't there it is easy to snap off a plug. |
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Paulbeard
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2604
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start |
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That was just from pulling the wire off… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Maybe they require a more gentle touch than I used, though they didn't all break.
_________________
Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
— dhaavers |
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kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 7915
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start |
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| Paulbeard wrote: |
More time hooking/unhooking for a less than one mile tow…
[pic] |
You might want to add your photo to the official tow topic: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481782 . 
As for the plugs, I highly recommend cleaning the debris out from around the plugs before unscrewing them. Don't want that junk falling into the engine. 
And a reminder to be sure to remove the screw-on terminal cap before installing the new plugs.
_________________
~Kamz 
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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Paulbeard
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2604
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start |
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See pg 9…different image, same incident.
Yeah, all that rat exhaust or whatever it is will be cleared away. I wish I had access to power so I should blow it away with a shop vac. A little leery of washing it away with water.
_________________
Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
— dhaavers |
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kamzcab86
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Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 7915
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start |
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| Paulbeard wrote: |
| I wish I had access to power so I should blow it away with a shop vac. A little leery of washing it away with water. |
It's an added expense ($5-10, depending on the store), but there are cans of compressed air you can buy. Office supply stores and many home improvement stores carry them.
_________________
~Kamz
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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Abscate
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Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22633
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:23 am Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start |
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| Paulbeard wrote: |
See pg 9…different image, same incident.
Yeah, all that rat exhaust or whatever it is will be cleared away. I wish I had access to power so I should blow it away with a shop vac. A little leery of washing it away with water. |
Put a soccer ball fitting on your hand pump and it’s an instant shop air blast.
You have To coordinate the quick hand pump with the holding of the tip in the right place but a bit of practice makes perfect
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?Waldo?
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Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:35 am Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start |
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Spark plugs should be able to withstand pulling off the plug wires even if you are not particularly gentle in the process.
When asking for recommendations on engine specific parts (like sparkplugs), you might want to clarify that this is an inline-4 and not a WBX engine. |
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Paulbeard
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Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2604
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start |
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| ?Waldo? wrote: |
Spark plugs should be able to withstand pulling off the plug wires even if you are not particularly gentle in the process.
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I thought as much. Somewhat surprised to see these fail in this way.
| ?Waldo? wrote: |
When asking for recommendations on engine specific parts (like sparkplugs), you might want to clarify that this is an inline-4 and not a WBX engine. |
Fair point. I am just going with what's in there now to get things restored to whatever can pass as normal.
_________________
Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
— dhaavers |
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Paulbeard
Samba Member
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Posts: 2604
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start |
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Got new plugs today at FLAPS. Just blew out the crap around the old ones (Kam's canned air solution, FTW) and applied a dab of PBlaster to make sure they come out.
Tested the coil across the terminals and it shows 0 resistance. An open coil. Eso es no bueno. So I guess I need one of those as well. The label on this one is too tatty to make out. I'll see what FLAPS recommends for a MkIII Jetta Vanagon. The Jetta ones don't look remotely similar.
_________________
Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
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fxr
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 2315
Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start |
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| Paulbeard wrote: |
Tested the coil across the terminals and it shows 0 resistance. |
Do you mean zero resistance (a short) or infinite resistance (open circuit)? There's a huge difference.
That depends on your answer to the above question...
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Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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Paulbeard
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Posts: 2604
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start |
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Yeah, I'm wondering about that now as I read up more on this. To be clear, the result is the same as crossing the leads together.
Just read through this and realize my tests and resulting understanding are incomplete.
This — "A failed ignition coil can show up in several ways, ranging from noticeable decreases in power and fuel mileage to severe engine misfires that can sometimes render the vehicle undrivable" — seems like I am on the right track. There was a lot of bogging and slow pickup as well as a few backfires.
_________________
Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
— dhaavers
Last edited by Paulbeard on Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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fxr
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 2315
Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start |
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| Paulbeard wrote: |
| Yeah, I'm wondering about that now as I read up more on this. To be clear, the result is the same as crossing the leads together. |
A good test, that I always do before measuring resistance, as most cheapo meters won't read actual zero when the probes are connected together! However, what range was your multimeter set to? I hope to the most sensitive range (usually 200 ohms full scale for the cheapies) - as the primary of the coil is only a few ohms, and if on any other range you won't get any sensible reading.
| Quote: |
Just read through this and realize my tests and resulting understanding are incomplete. |
Learning can be fun.  Possible one reason we all seem to like our Vans - there's always something to figure out from scratch.
_________________
Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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