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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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 Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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Back to the OPs topic.
| Glenn wrote: |
| your money is better spent on a distributor that's better matched to your engine and carb. |
He has a H30/31PICT.
Here's the answer.
| wcfvw69 wrote: |
The h30/31 is an aftermarket 30 series carb. It's pretty decent if you're not a purist. A good match for it would be a restored 113905205T. It's a vacuum only advance distributor that was installed on single port buses in 1969 and 1970.
They are excellent after restoration.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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| Xevin wrote: |
| tasb wrote: |
Here's a rusty yet restoreable distributor:
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irregardless of wether it
 \Thats going to take lot of Colgate and lemons. |
that
]
I am illustrating here a distributor with rust that requires more than superficial treatment irregardless of whether it is aluminum or cast iron. it might be beyond what the typical hobbiest would want to tackle.
Actually it's a pretty typical looking core.
before
after
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1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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Actually cleaning them is the easy part and anyone can do it. Knowing how to inspect the parts for wear, getting the correct factory replacement parts and getting it to work as well or better when it left the factory is the hard part.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Actually cleaning them is the easy part and anyone can do it. Knowing how to inspect the parts for wear, getting the correct factory replacement parts and getting it to work as well or better when it left the factory is the hard part. |
this^^^^^^^
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Actually cleaning them is the easy part and anyone can do it. Knowing how to inspect the parts for wear, getting the correct factory replacement parts and getting it to work as well or better when it left the factory is the hard part. |
I agree. I tore down (3) distributors last night. These distributors were all nasty and dirty, both externally and internally. The parts were all put in my large ultrasonic parts cleaner with hot water and a cleaning solution. After 10 minutes, I use some additional soap and small scrub brush to clean the inside of the distributor body out of the old grease, dirt and debris. 10 minutes more in the sonic cleaner and they come out spotless. The same with the rest of the parts.
All these Bosch distributors have decades of dirt, dust, debris and rotor center cap carbon dust accumulation. All that filth grinds these internal parts undersized. You can't simply apply new grease over those years of filth. It would be like rebuilding an engine and not cleaning the parts or case out.
The DVDA distributors from 1971-1973 were not tolerant of this filth on the points cams or pivot plates. The points wear block grease would get embedded with this grit and grind the points cam lobes down. It's very obvious when you put the distributor on the distributor machine. The lobes do not fire 90* from each other. I've seen them up to 6* off due to excess cam lobe wear. The pivot plates are also known to be very worn due to grit/dirt and the original grease vanishing decades ago. The dwell changes when the pivot plate pivots which it should not do.
Bottom line is this. Whether you restore one distributor for your own VW or you are restoring them for others; you should care enough to take the time to clean these parts correctly so the restoration will add years/decades to the distributors life.
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Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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I guess it's pick on Tim day...
To Seven Oaks, first that I've heard about your dis-satisfaction with your distributor. if you had an issue and let me know I would have made it right, I always have. I've restored a thousand distributors give or take, in fifteen years. I've had a handful of distributors that had issues and I've corrected each one successfully. show me someone who hasn't. Are you sure it wasn't the O ring preventing the distributor from fully seating- a common problem.
to Bill (wcfvw69) Your customer you are referring to had his distributor sitting for a year before he picked it up again. I very likely had more than one core torn down which is common, and probably picked up the wrong shaft to install. Mistakes happen to all of us. The customer got his money back immediately. To accuse me of having no/poor morals, integrity and character is at the very least over dramatic.
Several months ago I offered my entire core pile of DVDA distributors and parts to Bill at a reasonable price. I recognized that I sometimes miss ware points or dirt on the DVDA's due to my visual impairment. I don't have the same issues with the SVA's or cast iron distributors. Bill turned down my offer.
To Glenn, to think that this all started from the suggestion that a casual distributor restorer did not need an ultra sonic cleaner. He should instead send it to you to do for what, $300 by the time you ad tune up parts, then there's the shipping.
To ThePhillthyBeast, sorry all of this has littered your request for help. Keep plugging away at your VW it is worth the effort.
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1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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| tasb wrote: |
| I guess it's pick on Tim day... |
Tim,
We all have days like this and tomorrow is a new day.
| tasb wrote: |
To Glenn, to think that this all started from the suggestion that a casual distributor restorer did not need an ultra sonic cleaner. He should instead send it to you to do for what, $300 by the time you ad tune up then there's the shipping. |
Actually I first stated that he should get the "correct" distributor instead of rebuilding it rusty 009 which will not give him the best performance.
Then Bill pointed out that the 009 looked to have visible wear issues.
I never suggested he send it to me and I don't charge $300 to rebuild a 009. Here's what I said:
| Glenn wrote: |
I rebuild them but your money is better spent on a distributor that's better matched to your engine and carb.
You can but a good used 009 for less than the cost of a rebuild. |
I gave him good advice.
You and i have a disagreement on what constitutes are rebuild. In my book, dirty is not acceptable. Also using hardware store parts is not. I consider doing so is cutting corners, being cheap and not a rebuild.
No one would accept an engine as "rebuilt" if there was crud inside and silicone used instead of buying a gasket set. We all expect clean and "correct" parts.
| tasb wrote: |
| I recognized that I sometimes miss ware points or dirt on the DVDA's due to my visual impairment. I don't have the same issues with the SVA's or cast iron distributors |
Yours / mine
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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I'll repeat this again for the OP.
Your money is better spent on a distributor that's better matched to your engine and carb.
And that is a 205T.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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| tasb wrote: |
to Bill (wcfvw69) Your customer you are referring to had his distributor sitting for a year before he picked it up again.
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How is this relevant Tim? It sat unused for a year. It was still in the same exact condition you sent it to him in.
| tasb wrote: |
I very likely had more than one core torn down which is common, and probably picked up the wrong shaft to install. Mistakes happen to all of us. The customer got his money back immediately. To accuse me of having no/poor morals, integrity and character is at the very least over dramatic.
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I get that we all make mistakes Tim, myself included. However.. the inside of the body of this distributor was filthy. Every part inside this distributor was filthy. The points cam lobes were far too worn. The advance weights and their pins were heavily worn and were not removed yet fresh grease was applied to them? I can post the autopsy pictures of this disassembled distributor if you'd like? Yes, he said you refunded his money but your response to him when he reached out to you was snarky and unprofessional.
It would be one thing if this distributor had been disassembled and the only issues were questionable wear on parts. Yes, we all have to make decisions on what's acceptable wear for a distributor to still work and perform to spec. What was found was far from that.
I have boxes of scrapped distributors that were simply far too worn or corroded to restore. This is why I won't pay much for core DVDA distributors. It takes many cores to harvest enough parts still in spec to restore one.
| tasb wrote: |
Several months ago I offered my entire core pile of DVDA distributors and parts to Bill at a reasonable price. I recognized that I sometimes miss ware points or dirt on the DVDA's due to my visual impairment. I don't have the same issues with the SVA's or cast iron distributors. Bill turned down my offer.
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Again, I'm not sure how you offering to sell me distributors is relevant? Also, to be fair Tim, I'd purchased some of your cores from you a couple of years ago when I ran out of a certain model. Everytime, I was sent a well worn out core distributor missing many parts that required me to email and ask for a refund for some of my money. I didn't want to buy anymore of those.
It's also important to note Tim that I didn't bring your name into this. I only pointed out a recent example of a 'restored' distributor that should of never been sold to anyone in the condition it was in. And for the record, other folks have had to fix your restored distributors too and found the same issues.
I'll say it again. I'm far from perfect and I make mistakes too. But I would never sell an obviously worn out distributor that I didn't even take the time to clean.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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I don't accept dirt either. My feedback speaks to that. The only parts that I use from McMaster Carr are phenolic shims, same materiial as Bosch (different color) same thickness, same inner diameter, slightly smaller outer diameter. your pics do nothing, Glenn, it's a question of lighting and the quality of the camera at the date the pics were taken. I would describe my work as clean and functional ready to go to work. I do not create works of art like yours or Bill's. my vision prevents me from doing so. I don't charge art gallery prices.
My response to the customer was not snarky, I stated that I could argue some of the points being made but I would save us both some grief and issue him a refund. I questioned the fact that he had the distributor for a year and now wanted his money back.
The point I was trying to make by offering you my cores Bill, was that I recognized I was having some issues with the DVDA distributors and was attempting to get them to someone who could use them,.
My final point (hopefully) I too have had a chance to have a look at other's restoration work and found it lacking. I haven't made a big deal about it or named names. Craftsman are nearly always critical of the work of other craftsman. Ok I've made myself vulnerable and admitted enough weakness for one night,.
_________________
Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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Tim,
I use my cell.pnone to take pictures, so unless you use a old Polaroid i don't buy it.
And those red washers are not the same material as the correct Bosch ones.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16883
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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battle of the distributor restorers 
lets get ready to rummmmbuuuuuullllllll
Link
all we need is hazetguy in here and we can have a tag team match round
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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ThePhilthyBeast
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2019
Posts: 5
Location: OR
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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Thanks for the feedback, all. You've convinced me to not to try undertaking a tear down and rebuild on my own. And since purchasing a new distributor is not in the cards right now, I'm going to stick with cleaning up what I can get at and hoping in back in for the time being.
Can anyone here give me the specs on the missing return spring? |
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ThePhilthyBeast
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2019
Posts: 5
Location: OR
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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I probably should have tried to respond to the various points that were made. Just playing catch up as I make my way through all the responses.
Rebuild vs. purchasing a "new"professionally rebuilt distributor - sounds like with the various unkowns of my current unit I'd be better off putting my money twords the new working distributor.
New replacement distributor/ 009 vs. 205T - I'm hearing both that the 205T model will work better with my aftermaket Solex 30/31 PICT and that a 009 is an acceptable substitute. Given my personal proclivities I'll probably stick with my mechanical advance. But if someone want to go in to more detail as to why I should switch if and when I buy a new unit, I'm all ears.
The upshot being, the bus ran ok with the current unit in it's current condition. I'm hoping my shadetree refurbish will at the least keep it running and at best provide a little better performance and longevity until I have the bread to upgrade to a new unit.
One more question (to go along with the request for the specs on the missing return spring I posted above) - I'm presuming the surface rust on the internal components is due to the oil journal in the shaft being gummed up, resulting in no lubrication. Any tips on this issue?
Thanks again for everyone that's taken the time to respond so far and extra thanks to the gent who enouraged me to keep on going with the project. Much appreciated. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:07 am Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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My advice is the clean the parts as best you can with 0000 steelwool. Polish the machined parts and then apply a thin layer of grease. Reassemble in the reverse order of taking it apart.
Be careful not to damage any of the plastic parts.
If you need and fiber washers or metal shims PM me, I have genuine Bosch replacements.
There should be only 1 spring.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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ThePhilthyBeast
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2019
Posts: 5
Location: OR
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:09 am Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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| Thanks, Glenn. |
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Xevin
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 7635
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:59 am Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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I have a couple of 205T cores you can have. Under one condition. I send to Bill to be restored, you pay shipping and Bills fees. Let me know when you ready. I’m in no hurry.
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Keep on Busin'
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd  |
| SGKent wrote: |
| My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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VWsArent4Hippies
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 3079
Location: The Bull City
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:33 am Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
battle of the distributor restorers
lets get ready to rummmmbuuuuuullllllll
all we need is hazetguy in here and we can have a tag team match round |
This shit is funny. I’ve used 2 out of the 3 rebuilders throwing their dicks around in this thread. Guess what, I wouldn’t use either one again!
Hazetguy for president!
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| aeromech wrote: |
| in my opinion you don't know shit |
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Xevin
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 7635
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:59 am Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
battle of the distributor restorers
lets get ready to rummmmbuuuuuullllllll
all we need is hazetguy in here and we can have a tag team match round |
This shit is funny. I’ve used 2 out of the 3 rebuilders throwing their dicks around in this thread. Guess what, I wouldn’t use either one again!
Hazetguy for president! |
Why?
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Keep on Busin'
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
| SGKent wrote: |
| My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:04 am Post subject: Re: 009 Distributor refurbish |
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Someone want to explain how the 009 returns to its baseline timing spec without a second return spring? It’s been years since I’ve had one apart to futz with, but I feel like the idle timing would float quite a bit with a mechanical advance weight free to move about its pivot...
Robbie
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