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My first tow - ABA won't start [still not solved]
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Paulbeard
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

OK, bone-tired as I am but curious nonetheless, I took another run at this. Meter ranges were set as the expected readings indicate.

According the above testing process, it looks like the primary circuit is OK, reads within spec, but the secondary fluctuates around some low numbers (not in the thousands) and then zeroes out.

Quote:
Most ignition coils should have a primary resistance falling somewhere between 0.4 and 2 ohms


Quote:
If a reading of zero is displayed, that signifies that the coil has short-circuited and needs to be replaced


So I can try it after the plugs are replaced and see what I get. If I replace the coil and that's not it, having a spare is not a bad idea.
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SyncroButter
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

Double check your engine grounds... I only say this because I know you just replaced your transmission, and trans is the location of one of the two factory ground "braids" so possible it wandered off somehow.
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Paulbeard
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

SyncroButter wrote:
Double check your engine grounds... I only say this because I know you just replaced your transmission, and trans is the location of one of the two factory ground "braids" so possible it wandered off somehow.


Hmm. A good idea in any event. Kinda hope I am wrong on the coil and everything works with the new plugs. Just discovered I have three spark plug sockets, all the wrong size (5/8 vs 13/16) so this little episode is finding all kinds of issues.
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Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

Paulbeard wrote:
OK, bone-tired as I am but curious nonetheless, I took another run at this. Meter ranges were set as the expected readings indicate.

According the above testing process, it looks like the primary circuit is OK, reads within spec, but the secondary fluctuates around some low numbers (not in the thousands) and then zeroes out.

Quote:
Most ignition coils should have a primary resistance falling somewhere between 0.4 and 2 ohms


Quote:
If a reading of zero is displayed, that signifies that the coil has short-circuited and needs to be replaced


So I can try it after the plugs are replaced and see what I get. If I replace the coil and that's not it, having a spare is not a bad idea.

Yup, sounds like the coil has shorted on the secondary.
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Paulbeard
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

Well, I was half right when I said I had fuel. The pump and injectors were working but the injectors weren't in the head… Shocked They weren't pointing up when I found them, this is just for narrative purposes. But they were all disconnected.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The rail is held in place by the rubber seals at the injector(?). Not sure I like that much. Would a backfire or three push those out? Not great to think of my attempts to start with the injectors dumping gas all over…

And here are the duff plugs I pulled. It was a job getting those broken electrodes out of the wires.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It runs, though. Badly, but it runs. The coil is toast. I checked it again and as before the secondary shows all kinds of values before ending at 1 (out of range) or 0. Neither are in spec.

So the correct plugs (these replacements are not what I pulled out: should have done that first) and a coil are needed now. The plugs I bought don't go in as far. These BP6ET ones seem hard to find. FLAPS doesn't let me look up by part number, insisting on matching my vehicle (not ideal with an engine swap). So Amazon got the sale on a similar set of NGKs.
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Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

Wow...your rig is chock full of odd issues. Never heard of the last three of these...

(Nothing personal...just sayin.) <shrug>

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Benign neglect by the PO, age, and my own lack of understanding are all factors. Who owns anything long enough to wear out the ignition coil these days? We'll fix this stuff and go on to the next thing.
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Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

^^^ Indeed... "Git 'r DONE!" & see you out on the ROAD!

Cool Wink

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Paulbeard
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

dhaavers wrote:
Git 'r DONE!


Someone quoted me in their sig line last week and maybe this is going to be added to mine…
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Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:18 pm    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

Paulbeard wrote:
These BP6ET ones seem hard to find. FLAPS doesn't let me look up by part number, insisting on matching my vehicle (not ideal with an engine swap). So Amazon got the sale on a similar set of NGKs.


Some ABA owners on VWvortex use BKR5E and that's what NGK shows for the ABA in their catalog.

The BP6ET plugs are for WBX's and older 8V's.

And the ABA, when it left the factory in Golfs/Jettas, uses a coil pack. That's why the original equipment looks different from your Vanagon. Wink

Your FLAPS need to get with the program. All of my local stores will order up parts based on part number and don't even ask me for a car model.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

BKR5EGP is what I have on order…so that should be alright.

This has been quite an adventure. I'm really glad this happened less than a mile from home vs 100 miles and a ferry trip away…
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

Paulbeard wrote:
BKR5EGP is what I have on order…so that should be alright.


Whatever is after the E is merely a derivative of the "base" plug style (in this case, G-Power), so, yes should be good to go. Cool
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:16 am    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

Paulbeard wrote:
BKR5EGP is what I have on order…so that should be alright.

This has been quite an adventure. I'm really glad this happened less than a mile from home vs 100 miles and a ferry trip away…


Totally this. SWMBO blew out a radiator on her Volvo 100 meters from home and walked home , got Me , and we pushed her back. I have been refilling the karmic bucket after that one, multiple times.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:35 am    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

Paulbeard wrote:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Benign neglect by the PO, age, and my own lack of understanding are all factors. Who owns anything long enough to wear out the ignition coil these days? We'll fix this stuff and go on to the next thing.


Paul, the thing to remember is once the magnetic field collapses inside the coil, the spark energy will seek out a ground to whatever is easiest to reach. Sometimes it will burn a hole through a plug wire. Other times it will make a path on top of the coil to the ground lug. When it does this, the coil starts to overheat. The older coils were oil filled. This helped keep the coil cool better than the newer coils. Most all modern coils are epoxy filled. They will overheat much faster to the point of meltdown.

Here's a previous post which the driver elected to keep the spark plug wire off so he could limp home. That's fine to do, but you must ground out the plug wire. I keep a small jumper wire in my glove box for this purpose. I know your situation is different because you were not aware of the broken spark plug.

Good luck

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:35 am    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

The coil may have been at the root of all this but the broken plugs were all my doing. I suppose some new wires are in order as well. The fact this has happened before (though not as severely as this) is puzzling.

Shaking my head at how much worse this could have been, either in severity or just timing.
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Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

Don’t be too hard on yourself. Those plugs were already broken inside when you went to yank them out. I’m 99.9% sure.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:09 am    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

jberger wrote:
Don’t be too hard on yourself. Those plugs were already broken inside when you went to yank them out. I’m 99.9% sure.



You may be right…curious on the how and why of that but maybe this all ties back to overheating.
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Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

your fuel rail should be bolted/secured down. else YES it can pop out from a back fire (caused by plug/coil issues)

also maybe a good time to replace the injector rubber seals. it's a easy place to get a vac leak that will impact driveability.

might want to ask the TIICO guys what they use to secure their rail, but really anything that exerts a little down pressure for the injectors into the seals would suffice. a stiff strap of metal from the threaded holes in the intake should work.

Paulbeard wrote:
Well, I was half right when I said I had fuel. The pump and injectors were working but the injectors weren't in the head… Shocked They weren't pointing up when I found them, this is just for narrative purposes. But they were all disconnected.

[pic]

The rail is held in place by the rubber seals at the injector(?). Not sure I like that much. Would a backfire or three push those out? Not great to think of my attempts to start with the injectors dumping gas all over…


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

Pulled the old coil today…I suspect it's OG, unmolested since the day this rig rolled off the assembly line.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The upper 10mm screw on the bracket refused to come out, spinning merrily, while the bottom one was fine. I was able to undo the retaining bolt (8mm) that tightens the bracket and pull the coil out that way.

It's always something.
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Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: My first tow - won't start Reply with quote

The hits just keep on coming…

New coil and plugs arrived today. The coil went in but the plugs (BKR5E) did not…the terminal can't be unscrewed as on the BR6ES ones I had, so finished swapping BR6ES ones in. Turns out all four of the old plugs were broken. WTF would cause that?

Got it started but it was very rough, strong smell of unburned fuel, high idle (about 1500). It let it run for a minute and then stopped it. It refused to start again. Can you flood a fuel injected motor? I didn't test the coil beforehand but since it started once, I'm assuming for the moment it's good.

Anyway, that's the state of play. Not sure what to look at next.
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Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

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Git 'r DONE!
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