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danfinfan
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2019
Posts: 30
Location: Miami, FL
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 Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:42 pm Post subject: Electrical Help!! |
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So I figured I would turn to you guys for advice because I am stumpped.
I am going to start working on the electrical of my 74 Beetle, or at least I thought I was until I saw what was lurking under! For the most part the car runs fine, however; with electrical I have an issue with my running lights, my hazards, horn and reverse lights. Plus to make things even more odd when I put my left turn signal on the radio shuts off 
Here is how I found the state of my wires. How would you all start tackling this project?!?!
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vwoldbug
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2009
Posts: 1214
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: Electrical Help!! |
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| Id check into new harnesses. |
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Alaskan Possum
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2018
Posts: 31
Location: Fairbanks, alaska
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: Electrical Help!! |
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Looks a lot like mine did 3 years ago, minus the what looks like a house extension cord.
Harness is probably your best bet if you want to stay properly color coded.
Excellent information in here, make sure you get and learn how to read the wiring diagram. Looks like your seat belt relay is missing. I took mine out since the sensors were not there. Somewhere in here tells how to bypass it.
Take your time and trace one wire at a time. Please don’t unplug everything at once!
Take the time to clean, really well, all the grounds. It was the cause of my left blinker working when I hit the brakes.
It’s a fun puzzle, but very rewarding when you get it back working.
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danfinfan
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2019
Posts: 30
Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: Electrical Help!! |
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| Alaskan Possum wrote: |
Looks a lot like mine did 3 years ago, minus the what looks like a house extension cord.
Harness is probably your best bet if you want to stay properly color coded.
Excellent information in here, make sure you get and learn how to read the wiring diagram. Looks like your seat belt relay is missing. I took mine out since the sensors were not there. Somewhere in here tells how to bypass it.
Take your time and trace one wire at a time. Please don’t unplug everything at once!
Take the time to clean, really well, all the grounds. It was the cause of my left blinker working when I hit the brakes.
It’s a fun puzzle, but very rewarding when you get it back working.
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Thanks for the advice, been trying to decipher the wiring diagram and get comfortable with it. Not going to lie right now still feeling like they are hieroglyphics lol |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: Electrical Help!! |
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| danfinfan wrote: |
Thanks for the advice, been trying to decipher the wiring diagram and get comfortable with it. Not going to lie right now still feeling like they are hieroglyphics lol |
Try taking a look at the 72 super wiring diagram instead, it is laid out in the shape of the car so it's a lot easier to understand, and is very similar to the 74 with a few minor exceptions.
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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danfinfan
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2019
Posts: 30
Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: Electrical Help!! |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| danfinfan wrote: |
Thanks for the advice, been trying to decipher the wiring diagram and get comfortable with it. Not going to lie right now still feeling like they are hieroglyphics lol |
Try taking a look at the 72 super wiring diagram instead, it is laid out in the shape of the car so it's a lot easier to understand, and is very similar to the 74 with a few minor exceptions. |
You sir have just made my life a lot easier!
BTW SB001 this electrical piece of work is also an Autostick  |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15985
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Electrical Help!! |
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| danfinfan wrote: |
I have an issue with my running lights, my hazards, horn and reverse lights. Plus to make things even more odd when I put my left turn signal on the radio shuts off
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That is quite the "rat's nest" of wires. 
Start with the radio. ID which wires from the radio run to the speakers. These should be completely separate from the electrical wires as they run directly from the radio to the speakers. Unless they happen to be incorrectly wired to the fuse box or something else you can set them aside and not worry about them.
There should be 3 or 4 other wires that connect the radio to power or ground. These are usually the following colors:
red - main ignition switched power. This should run to fuse #11 or #12. If there is an inline fuse holder in the wire it should connect to the INPUT side of the fuse box (the side of the fuse box that STILL has power even when you remove the fuses.
black - ground wire. This wire should have a good connection to the body of the car.
yellow - constant 12v power. This is for the internal memory of the radio and should be connected to fuses #8 or #9. Again if there is an inline fuse on the wire it should be connected to the INPUT side of the fuse.
blue - antenna or amp power trigger. Probably not used. Wrap and tie up so it does not come in contact w/ ground.
Running lights are powered by a single grey wire (likely with two connectors) that comes from the headlight switch #58 terminal and ends at the INPUT side of fuse #1 & #2. Check that there is 12v+ on this wire when you move the headlight switch to either ON position (#1 or #2 ON position of the headlight switch).
The Hazard lights are powered from fuse #9. Look for the red wire on the OUTPUT side of fuse #8 and trace it to the E-Flasher switch #30 terminal. Test the end of this wire for 12v. It should have constant 12v as it is powered from the battery circuit.
Do your brake lights work? The horn is powered from fuse #11 and shared the circuit with the brake lights. A single black wire leaves the OUTPUT side of fuse #11 and runs along the left side (left side of car) of the fuel tank and dives under the body where it splits into a black wire that continues to the brake switches and a black/yellow wire that runs to the horn under the fender. With the ignition ON there should be 12v at the horn (+) terminal. Test for this.
Once you have confirmed power on the horn (+), take a jumper wire and ground the (-) horn terminal. Expect to get a "blast" in your ear (wear hearing protection). If the horn sounds you have proved you have voltage to the horn and grounding it causes the horn to work. Your problem is somewhere in the switched ground path of the horn which runs thru the steering column, turn signal switch and horn button. Do a search for horn wiring for a '72-later Beetle and you can check your horn button wiring.
The reverse lights are not powered from the fuse box directly. The reverse light circuit starts from the ignition coil #15 (+) terminal in the engine. From there a black wire runs over to the right side of the engine compartment. There should be an 8A fuse in a black fuse holder somewhere along that length of wire. Check this fuse. The black wire continues around the right side of the fan shroud and exits near the top of the transmission. It runs to a switch at the front of the trans nose cone. The wire returns to the engine compartment along the same path before splitting into a left/right side. The wires connect at the multi wire junction on either side of the engine and connect to the blue wire which ends at the reverse light bulb. With the ignition switch is ON, check there is voltage along this entire path when the transmission is in reverse.
_________________
AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}
Last edited by ashman40 on Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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danfinfan
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2019
Posts: 30
Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Electrical Help!! |
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Ashman thank you!!
You have definitely given me guidance and a place to start organizing this mess!
Brake lights are sketchy, sometimes they don’t work then this morning the driver side one decided to cooperate. Need to go in and first check/replace the bulbs and see if the connections are snug on the housing itself.
Should the break lights on the beetle have constant power? Meaning if I press the break pedal should they light up even without the key in the ignition? |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15985
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Electrical Help!! |
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| danfinfan wrote: |
| Should the break lights on the beetle have constant power? |
No. Brakes are powered from the ignition switch circuit... always have been. The ignition switch needs to be ON.
_________________
AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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danfinfan
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2019
Posts: 30
Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:57 am Post subject: Re: Electrical Help!! |
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So I have started tracing and organizing wires as best as I can to get a better feel for what is going on in this mess of wires. The only things that have been removed are the radio and the windshield wiper motor, both of these have been disconnected and removed from the trunk/dash.
All the switches, relays and fuse boxes remain untouched.
However, when I went to turn the key to put the ignition on 1 to check something with the lights, I have no power at all. Oil and Gen light on dash don't come on, checked the fuse box to see if there was constant power with a test light and there is none.
I am confused as to what could of happened, the car was working fine before my electrical adventures and now 24 hours in I am sitting with no power at all.
Any advice? |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15985
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:52 am Post subject: Re: Electrical Help!! |
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| danfinfan wrote: |
All the switches, relays and fuse boxes remain untouched.
However, when I went to turn the key to put the ignition on 1 to check something with the lights, I have no power at all. Oil and Gen light on dash don't come on, checked the fuse box to see if there was constant power with a test light and there is none. |
At the fuse box in '74 there are only two fuses with constant 12v. They are fuses #8/#9. If you check both ends of these two fuses for voltage and there is none, then you main #30 wire coming from the battery is suspect. Look for burnt/dirty connections or melted wires are you work your way back to the battery.
One of the red (or red/white) wires connected to the INPUT side of these two fuses (the side that has a brass bar connecting #8 to #9) comes from the rear of the car. This red wire runs into the harness that goes towards the rear of the car. Disconnect and test this wire for 12v. No voltage means there is a disconnect somewhere to the rear of the car. The other end of this red wire is under the rear seat.
If there is no voltage, go to the rear seat area. Under the left rear seat you should find a large white rectangle junction with 3 heavy gauge red wires running into it. One of these is the red wire running to the front/fuse box. Test for 12v at this junction. Clean connections (after disconnecting the battery) to improve current flow. If there is no voltage at this junction follow the wire to the battery and test there.
_________________
AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:58 am Post subject: Re: Electrical Help!! |
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Don't panic, most likely you simply snagged an important wire when removing those other two items.
On your car, power from the battery should come up through a thickish red wire in the main wire harness from the back of the car, come into the trunk and connect to #9 fuse on the fuse box (#9 from the left if sitting in the car). This wire would connect to the UNFUSED side of the fuse box, that is it doesn't actually run through the fuse it just connects there. If you look at the fuse box you should see a metal strip that then bridges power from where that wire connects over to fuses #7 and #8. You should then see another thick red wire coming off the unfused side of #8, that wire goes to the ignition switch and supplies power to it.
I am unsure which fuse you checked at the fuse box to make sure you had power there, but be sure those two red wires are connected properly and check for power off those two wires. If you had power through the ignition switch before and now you suddenly don't, and if the only two things you touched were the radio and the windshield wiper motor (neither of which have anything to do with power going to the ignition) then really the only logical explanation is you snagged a wire and pulled it loose. (Assuming of course the wiring is correct as described above and some PO didn't do something really weird.)
P.S. Great to see another autostick being salvaged!
EDIT: Ashman beat me to a response, but i'm not erasing my post because a lot of thought and effort went into it. 
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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danfinfan
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2019
Posts: 30
Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:16 am Post subject: Re: Electrical Help!! |
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Thanks guys for the assistance, not in panic mode now because it was working prior to me farting around with the cables.
I did disconnect the wiper motor four cables from the quick connector and left them loose, didn't think this would be a cause for an issue but I could be wrong.
I have no power at the red/white thick cable at the fuse box which led me to check the battery with my meter and I ready 0 volts, so it is shot.
My question is what the hell did I do to fry my battery lol
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15985
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Electrical Help!! |
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I see a few loose wires. Before you reconnect your battery, make sure you remove unused wires and take precautions to prevent shorts. Loose unwrapped wires are just an accident waiting to happen. Wires in harnesses melt and melt the wires they run along side; creating an expensive repair.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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danfinfan
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2019
Posts: 30
Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Electrical Help!! |
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Yeah I have found a few of them, haven't removed anything yet though because still trying to get a feel for this.
It's a mess and difficult to trace or see whats what because PO went happy with electrical tape and its just chunks of wires all balled up and wrapped with electrical tape.
The more tape I start removing to trace the more wires I find either loose or just twisted together to make a poor connection in my opinion. |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:46 am Post subject: Re: Electrical Help!! |
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Have you actually taken a reading at the battery to make sure it's toast? It's possible I suppose that by removing those wires and leaving them lying loose you drained the battery- but I can really only see this happening with the radio wires as the wiper motor should not have constant power lead going to it.
Also double check the connection at the B+ terminal of the voltage regulator under the rear seat, should be two thick red wires connected there, one coming from the battery and one that goes into the wire harness that goes up to the front of the car-- make sure either of those didn't come loose.
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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danfinfan
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2019
Posts: 30
Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Electrical Help!! |
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Meter at the battery is giving me 0 volts.
I have an internally regulated alternator so there is no longer a voltage regulator under the back seat, just the connector with the wires all hooked up the way they should be when you no longer use an external voltage regulator.
Radio wires are disconnected but just the harness was disconnected there are no loose wires. However I did notice that PO was a genius and two power cables from the radio (constant and ON ignition) he wired them using speaker cables the the fuse box  |
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