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hylomatt Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2016 Posts: 378 Location: Florida
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:40 am Post subject: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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Here are some photos of an engine I'm building. The cylinder head studs were drilled crooked and I'm starting to wonder if this is a failure from the start. I've had all the machine work done and I've reached the point of installing cylinders to measure deck height.
The drillings were already crooked from when I purchased the car this engine is from.
Can I get some info from you guys based on experience or even opinion as to whether or not this will seriously harm the final product and desired outcome? And if so, what should be done?
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hazetguy Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001 Posts: 10773 Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:41 am Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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yikes, that last pic is terrible. crappy insert installment. should have been caught and corrected before putting new inserts in by whatever machine shop installed them. certainly not usable like that. _________________ thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money |
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hylomatt Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2016 Posts: 378 Location: Florida
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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@hazetguy, yeah I've never seen this before. I'm going to hold out for some more feedback but that sounds like I spent money prepping a garbage case. |
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hazetguy Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001 Posts: 10773 Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:08 am Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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it's not that the case is garbage, it's that the case savers were installed poorly. perhaps they can be drilled out and new ones (probably have to be oversize) installed correctly. have you talked to the shop that did the work? _________________ thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money |
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hylomatt Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2016 Posts: 378 Location: Florida
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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no, that work was done before I acquired the vehicle. I have no idea who did the job. |
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Brian_e Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 3227 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:32 am Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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Wow....Some people just shouldn't be allowed to operate tools.
That will never go back together without being bound up, and I bet it will have case and cylinder sealing issues the rest of its life.
There are a few different OD case savers. Depending on the size you have now, hopefully you can drill and tap for the next larger size. Make sure whoever does it will set the case halves up on a real vertical mill. This will not be a job for a drill press.
Judging by the work done by the previous person, you might also want to have each stud hole position checked relative to the bore center.
Good thing it is still stock bore.
Brian |
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hylomatt Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2016 Posts: 378 Location: Florida
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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As an additional bit of information, all of the case studs were bent. That didn't make sense until I put the "new" 10mm studs in. I think they were bent to "fix" this issue. All of them were bent. |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15278 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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If you are building the engine for a beater sandrail or off-road play buggy I'd build it. If this is any kind of a street car I would find another case. Cost wise, I would not attempt to fix it.
But if this was a running engine before you took it apart............ _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos
Last edited by vwracerdave on Tue May 07, 2019 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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RWK Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2009 Posts: 1337 Location: S.W. MI
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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Depends on how big your cylinders are, oversize inserts can be put in, but holes will have to be straighten out and put back into correct position by circular milling (thread mill), plunge mill, or boring head/boring bar, maybe even a larger/custom insert. May not have enough mat'l in case left if you are running 92-94 mm.
Any further drilling will just make it worse, drill will follow existing hole, looks like it was drilled on a drill press with a tilting table that wasn't square or even worse hand drilled! _________________ 73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530 |
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hylomatt Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2016 Posts: 378 Location: Florida
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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The cylinder bore is stock for 85.5 pistons. The bearing journals are oversized. The case is on it's last life at 60/80.
It's going in my 66 ghia, which I drive in rotation with my others. |
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RWK Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2009 Posts: 1337 Location: S.W. MI
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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I would get another case, I would charge couple hundred to fix,all studs that way? or just those few? _________________ 73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530 |
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hylomatt Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2016 Posts: 378 Location: Florida
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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it's mainly the 4 top studs on the passenger side. passenger side bottom studs are pretty straight but a smidge off.
driver side bottom 4 are also nearly straight. top 4 on driver side are a little off but not as bad as passenger side. |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33875 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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Until I saw the pics (just reading the header), I thought, "hell, I've tolerated bent/crooked studs just fine" but man, those are really out of whack! I'd pass or get it reworked somehow... if it can be. |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15278 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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hylomatt wrote: |
The case is on it's last life at 60/80. |
I'd junk the case PERIOD. No matter how tight your budget is.
The case was on it's last life at 40/40 _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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hylomatt Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2016 Posts: 378 Location: Florida
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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(edited to stay on topic) My budget isn't tight. I'm looking at cases available in the classifieds. |
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hylomatt Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2016 Posts: 378 Location: Florida
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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So if fixing the case studs is cheaper than a used case, have it fixed or still ditch the case?
do others agree with vwracerdave regarding the 60/80 bore? |
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FeelthySanchez Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2011 Posts: 1349 Location: Now is that a real poncho, or a Sears poncho?
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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hylomatt wrote: |
...... they were bent to "fix" this issue. All of them were bent. |
We used to call this situation "GEX's Lawn Darts". _________________
modok wrote: |
I would like if you had enough clue to communicate what you are doing. |
Ryan Tucker wrote: |
Enough clue..Whats that mean? |
OldIronSpine wrote: |
I'm not sure how compression works.
Turbos don't produce torque, they produce HP. Instead of torque.
The real problem with NA engines is you don't hear the nice whine of the turbo as it spools up.
Before I commit, I'm going to do more research because I don't really know what piston rings are. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 4394 Location: Brew City
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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hylomatt wrote: |
Here are some photos of an engine I'm building. The cylinder head studs were drilled crooked and I'm starting to wonder if this is a failure from the start. I've had all the machine work done and I've reached the point of installing cylinders to measure deck height.
The drillings were already crooked from when I purchased the car this engine is from.
Can I get some info from you guys based on experience or even opinion as to whether or not this will seriously harm the final product and desired outcome? And if so, what should be done?
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I could have done a better job with hand crank drill while blindfolded.... _________________ Please "LIKE" us on facebook to see what we are working on.
https://www.facebook.com/mofoco?ref=ts&fref=ts
www.mofoco.com
Cylinder Head Reference Sheet |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9131 Location: Canada
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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[email protected] wrote: |
hylomatt wrote: |
Here are some photos of an engine I'm building. The cylinder head studs were drilled crooked and I'm starting to wonder if this is a failure from the start. I've had all the machine work done and I've reached the point of installing cylinders to measure deck height.Can I get some info from you guys based on experience or even opinion as to whether or not this will seriously harm the final product and desired outcome? And if so, what should be done? |
I could have done a better job with hand crank drill while blindfolded.... |
OOWWW That sounds like a challenge. I'll put $20 on Roy
brad |
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Bama Dave Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2015 Posts: 963 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs |
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I would get another case. That's amazingly horrible. Like Dave said, it has been bored to its limit. Some might call it FUBAR. _________________ David Richerson
1970 Beetle
1971 Super
1972 Baja
hellthorne wrote: |
First off, I know i made stupid decisions that led to my predicament, so while you are welcome to tell me that I am an idiot for doing the things I did, please know that I am already aware of this. |
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