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Crooked cylinder head studs
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hylomatt Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:40 am    Post subject: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

Here are some photos of an engine I'm building. The cylinder head studs were drilled crooked and I'm starting to wonder if this is a failure from the start. I've had all the machine work done and I've reached the point of installing cylinders to measure deck height.

The drillings were already crooked from when I purchased the car this engine is from.

Can I get some info from you guys based on experience or even opinion as to whether or not this will seriously harm the final product and desired outcome? And if so, what should be done?


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:41 am    Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

yikes, that last pic is terrible. crappy insert installment. should have been caught and corrected before putting new inserts in by whatever machine shop installed them. certainly not usable like that.
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

@hazetguy, yeah I've never seen this before. I'm going to hold out for some more feedback but that sounds like I spent money prepping a garbage case.
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

it's not that the case is garbage, it's that the case savers were installed poorly. perhaps they can be drilled out and new ones (probably have to be oversize) installed correctly. have you talked to the shop that did the work?
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

no, that work was done before I acquired the vehicle. I have no idea who did the job.
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

Wow....Some people just shouldn't be allowed to operate tools.

That will never go back together without being bound up, and I bet it will have case and cylinder sealing issues the rest of its life.

There are a few different OD case savers. Depending on the size you have now, hopefully you can drill and tap for the next larger size. Make sure whoever does it will set the case halves up on a real vertical mill. This will not be a job for a drill press.

Judging by the work done by the previous person, you might also want to have each stud hole position checked relative to the bore center.

Good thing it is still stock bore.

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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

As an additional bit of information, all of the case studs were bent. That didn't make sense until I put the "new" 10mm studs in. I think they were bent to "fix" this issue. All of them were bent.
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

If you are building the engine for a beater sandrail or off-road play buggy I'd build it. If this is any kind of a street car I would find another case. Cost wise, I would not attempt to fix it.

But if this was a running engine before you took it apart............
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

Depends on how big your cylinders are, oversize inserts can be put in, but holes will have to be straighten out and put back into correct position by circular milling (thread mill), plunge mill, or boring head/boring bar, maybe even a larger/custom insert. May not have enough mat'l in case left if you are running 92-94 mm.
Any further drilling will just make it worse, drill will follow existing hole, looks like it was drilled on a drill press with a tilting table that wasn't square or even worse hand drilled!
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:48 am    Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

The cylinder bore is stock for 85.5 pistons. The bearing journals are oversized. The case is on it's last life at 60/80.

It's going in my 66 ghia, which I drive in rotation with my others.
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

I would get another case, I would charge couple hundred to fix,all studs that way? or just those few?
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

it's mainly the 4 top studs on the passenger side. passenger side bottom studs are pretty straight but a smidge off.

driver side bottom 4 are also nearly straight. top 4 on driver side are a little off but not as bad as passenger side.
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

Until I saw the pics (just reading the header), I thought, "hell, I've tolerated bent/crooked studs just fine" but man, those are really out of whack! I'd pass or get it reworked somehow... if it can be.
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

hylomatt wrote:
The case is on it's last life at 60/80.


I'd junk the case PERIOD. No matter how tight your budget is.

The case was on it's last life at 40/40
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

(edited to stay on topic) My budget isn't tight. I'm looking at cases available in the classifieds.
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

So if fixing the case studs is cheaper than a used case, have it fixed or still ditch the case?

do others agree with vwracerdave regarding the 60/80 bore?
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

hylomatt wrote:
...... they were bent to "fix" this issue. All of them were bent.

We used to call this situation "GEX's Lawn Darts".
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

hylomatt wrote:
Here are some photos of an engine I'm building. The cylinder head studs were drilled crooked and I'm starting to wonder if this is a failure from the start. I've had all the machine work done and I've reached the point of installing cylinders to measure deck height.

The drillings were already crooked from when I purchased the car this engine is from.

Can I get some info from you guys based on experience or even opinion as to whether or not this will seriously harm the final product and desired outcome? And if so, what should be done?


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I could have done a better job with hand crank drill while blindfolded....
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 12:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
hylomatt wrote:
Here are some photos of an engine I'm building. The cylinder head studs were drilled crooked and I'm starting to wonder if this is a failure from the start. I've had all the machine work done and I've reached the point of installing cylinders to measure deck height.Can I get some info from you guys based on experience or even opinion as to whether or not this will seriously harm the final product and desired outcome? And if so, what should be done?


I could have done a better job with hand crank drill while blindfolded....


OOWWW That sounds like a challenge. I'll put $20 on Roy Very Happy

brad
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Crooked cylinder head studs Reply with quote

I would get another case. That's amazingly horrible. Like Dave said, it has been bored to its limit. Some might call it FUBAR.
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