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Qvazi
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2008
Posts: 98
Location: Warsaw , Poland
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 Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| AlteWagen wrote: |
why is there a problem with your body number? Karmann stamped their own numbers so time frames may not be exact.
Sedans are known to have body numbers off a month or so.
here is another registry with body numbers listed, go to the bottom and look under Karmann
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/registry/
Another thing to consider is that if there was a replacement clip installed at some time the original number may be gone.
Post some pics |
I have a birth certificate from the date of manufacture but I have not body number, becouse previous owner changed front clip on newer. Now I'm back to the original elements and try to find correct body number.
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/5500/birth016.jpg - birth certificate |
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AlteWagen
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Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8501
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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I would not worry too much about the body number as long as the clip is correct and installed well I would just run without the number. Not having the correct vin plate is a different story.
I like your M code
M924 Lockable tonneau over front and rear seats
Domestic delivery, does your car have semaphores? |
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Qvazi
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2008
Posts: 98
Location: Warsaw , Poland
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:50 am Post subject: |
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Thanks AlteWagen.
I suspect that the car had semaphores , becouse I found welded place where the semaphores should be.
Mayby someone from forum has oval vert made between november 56 and february 57 and can write vert body number.
Cheers |
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MDKG
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Joined: October 16, 2008
Posts: 1088
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:26 am Post subject: |
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MDKG
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Joined: October 16, 2008
Posts: 1088
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Reviving this thread
Check out this 1954 VW promotional movie with what must be vert body parts waiting to be shipped to the Karmann factory at 5:50
Link
Here is a (pretty bad) screen shot
No doors, no vent slots in the deck lid yet 
Anyone who knows till what year Karmann received these parts from VW? |
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AlteWagen
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Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8501
Location: PNW
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AlteWagen
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VWCOOL
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Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 1821
Location: Down under
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| wow what a thread, thanks to all who have contributed. Amazing stuff |
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Abscate
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Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22639
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:18 am Post subject: |
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It is cruel and unusual punishment to see that warehouse full of NOS fenders.....
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Clementine69
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Joined: January 23, 2015
Posts: 17
Location: United States
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| AlteWagen wrote: |
Body numbers.
Karmann used its own body number system. While sedans stopped in 58 Karmann continued to use a body number at least until 67 (anyone have a 68-79 vert with a body number?).
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My '69 is stamped 649315 |
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BulliBill
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Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4572
Location: St Charles, MO
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 8:58 am Post subject: |
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Very cool thread on the Karmann factory! I got the chance to visit and tour the factory at least four times that I can remember starting back in 1995, but the coolest part of each visit was getting to crawl around all the prototypes in their private on-site museum! Got a great look at the #1 Ghia and took lots of photos and videos. I'll have to try to find them again. Some weird stuff there that never quite got to production.
Thanks for all the contributed vintage photos!
Bill
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11055
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| AlteWagen wrote: |
| anyone have a 68-79 vert with a body number? . |
I had forgotten to add this here ... seems like a very high consecutive number .
Especially since only 15826 were built??
Maybe the stamping system changed in 68??
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
I was working on a pretty nice undamaged (repainted) 1969 Convertible and found this
6 digit number to ad to the pool.
VIN number 15976***6
Approx - 4/1969
. |
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
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AlteWagen
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wayne1230cars
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Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 2685
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Karmann Production Info |
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My ‘70 has this number. Build date May , 1970.
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VOLKSWAGNUT
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Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Karmann Production Info |
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| AlteWagen wrote: |
| OVWN, is that first number a 5 or 6? Looks like 549331 . |
Pretty certain its 549331..
What is the theory of the much higher 6 digit numbers found after 1967??
Seeing the 69 digits and now wayne1230cars 70 even much higher it sure doesn't seem to jive with pre 68 numbering.
.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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AlteWagen
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Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8501
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:27 pm Post subject: Re: Karmann Production Info |
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| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
What is the theory of the much higher 6 digit numbers found after 1967??
Seeing the 69 digits and now wayne1230cars 70 even much higher it sure doesn't seem to jive with pre 68 numbering.
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I was thinking they might have changed to total production combining all models.
At the end of 67 total production is 468994.
In 68 total yearly production was 46329 bringing total production to 515323
In 69 total yearly production was 51280 bringing total production to 566603
In 70 total yearly production was 49329 bringing total production to 615932
It still may be possible since Karmann worked on makes other than VW. Could the Karmann produced 356 and 911/912 Porsches drive them into those higher numbers? Maybe some other Karmann production like Brazil?
Looks like the porsche guys are out of luck as the records before 70 were lost and only 70 on can be cross referenced between VIN and Karmann specific production number. Pre 70 data was recorded using Kardex while 70 was computer data base which is what saved it.
I think there is more info on the Porsche side of the Karmann production numbers, more research must be done. 1969 was the first year for the Karmann production number to be used on the dash and broke down the build with the last 4 numbers being sequential
You guys have any other theories?
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VOLKSWAGNUT
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Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 5:16 am Post subject: Re: Karmann Production Info |
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| Altewagon wrote: |
| You guys have any other theories? |
I was liking your theory of total Karmann production..until the total number didn't coincide with Wayne's 70.
Also seems that idea of total production would be difficult to track considering many line models across the board.
Maybe the first 2/3 digits have nothing to do with production...possibly a code for a line number ...color combination... or a day ..week..beer break time 
I was thinking maybe AFTER 1967 just the last 4 or 5 digits were production number and the first 2 or 3 were Julian date start of build . Maybe to keep track of how long it takes to produce a given unit or keep track of running assembly process change issues.
Logical numbering and tracking based on modern production standards .
Example of the two from above
1969
54= Feb 23 1969
1970
92 = Apr 2 1970
Also..Wayne's car Vin indicates early April build but Birth Certificate production date indicates May. Hence the known lag time for convertible production.
| wayne1230cars wrote: |
I would like to clarify a couple points and details.
1). I rechecked my German "birth certificate" and production date was actually May 12, 1970.
2). However my VIN number of 150 2 758 xxx indicates first part of April 1970 production. I am assuming that the May 12 production date and left the factory date of May 14 refers to the car leaving the Osnabruck factory. I am guessing on that. I am thinking that the VIN number would be assigned to the chassis at the Emden? factory and the chassis is then shipped to Osnabruck and the car is completed.
3). As far as the 929368 body number goes, that would correspond to the last 6 digits of the May 1970 VIN numbers. Maybe that is just a coincidence. Not sure. |
My theory seems to be an ok plasibke theory considering waynes 70 documented build start and final end assembly month ..
The hiccup..the 69 Vin and stamp do not support my theory when compared to Wayne's known start and end.
We think we know VINs were fairly randomly assigned to/at Karmann ..maybe one was pulled from the pile earlier or later....or one had a production assembly issue..
I realize these Karmann numbers are hand stamps but seems the digits are not very accurately aligned and seems as if multiple workers may have stamped them.
Note how both the 69 and 70 the first two digits are not aligned to the last four... 
And
The dash numbers sure are neatly aligned ..but even the first three are a little off... albeit it's an easier spot to reach.
Convertibles are obviously stamped before paint.
Maybe stamped at start of assembly to indicate date start and stamped again prior to paint to indicate production order.
No proof...just spit balling ...
someone still alive must know.
Interesting stuff .
Need more numbers 68 and newer..
.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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AlteWagen
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Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8501
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Karmann Production Info |
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looks like you might be close, these changes to production number happened around 68-69 so would make sense that VWs produced at Karmann would also follow suit.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-914-914-6-t...lates.html
| Paul Heery wrote: |
The plate that you see in the top picture was used to track the chassis as it was being built in the Karmann plant. This plate (referred to as the Production Plate), along with the VIN, can be extremely helpful in determining when your car was built. It can be decoded as follows:
First two digits = These are the weeks of the year that your chassis was put into production. Your car started production during the eight week of the year. 08 So, your car started production in mid-February.
Third digit = This is the day of the week that your car started production. Your car started production on a Thursday. 4 (Monday=1, Tuesday=2, Wednesday=3, etc.)
Fourth digit = This is always 9. This was meant to identify the factory the chassis was built in. The number 9 refers to Osnabrueck (where the Karmann plant is). Karmann was considering building 914s in other plants but, the plug got pulled on the project. Hence, this digit is always 9 since all 914 chassis were built in Osnabrueck.
Digits 5, 6 and 7 = This is a recurring counting number that always began on Mondays at 001. Your car was chassis number 519 produced that week.
If I knew the VIN of your vehicle I would probably be able to determine its birthdate.
Actually, the number was stamped into the trunk so that the chassis could be tracked during production. The Production Plate was created then attached after the chassis had been painted. |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
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Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Karmann Production Info |
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Now we are getting somewhere..all that Porsche information is new news to me
I was basing my theory off of the way some assemblies are tracked even today by Julian build...(hence running recalls are easier to narrow for production mistakes hahaha)
This week day tracking sounds pretty good ..except there are only max 53 weeks in a year. So no first two digits could be higher than 53.....and on a 6 digit idea..with the 4th always 9...that cant apply to a Convertible number stamp system based from the only three examples we have
.
Unless....the 9 is merely used as simply a divider between the week/day stamp and build number for that week.
The 69's and 70 stamps seem to indicate it may be possible?
So .this means...if the third or fourth digit are a constant 9...and the digits after 9 are build for a week that really only leaves numbers prior to 9 as a date stamp of some sort.
Karmann built approx 300 -350 a week in 69 /70...
To read...you start at the constant known 9 to read the unknown.
| VOLKSWAGNUT submitted wrote: |
| 15976***6 |
Stamp 549331
5 = Jan 69
4 = Thurs (30th)
April assigned VIN
9 assembly plant
331 car built week 5 Jan 1969
| Clementine69 wrote: |
| 159 760 XXX. |
649315
6= Feb 69
4= Thurs (6th)
April assigned VIN
9 assembly plant
315 car built week 6 in Feb 1969
| wayne1230cars wrote: |
| 150 2 758 xxx . |
929368
9 = Feb 70
2 = Tues (24th)
April assigned VIN
9 assembly plant
368 car built week 9 in Feb 1970
Hmmm..starting to add up.. this is making logical tracking and numbering sense to me.
One other thing ...I simply dont know...are there 7 digit stamps known to have been found on a Vw Beetle convertible? About March the weeks go double digits which would.. ..should make 7 digit stamp numbers ??
If so...then that's the answer.
We just need more post 67 convertible vins and stamps to confirm that theory.
And comfirm the 3/4 digit as always 9.
This would also mean 2/3 digit would always be 1-7 ..
Do Super Beetles have stamped number ?
.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited
Last edited by VOLKSWAGNUT on Tue May 28, 2019 10:06 am; edited 7 times in total |
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tisius
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Joined: July 11, 2011
Posts: 1570
Location: Rotterdam,NL (+Chicago,IL)
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| AlteWagen wrote: |
Caption above the photo of the pans states that they are only a months worth of production.
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Nope, the article says the chassis lot that is shown at the yard of the factory would most likely be sufficient for one production day(="Tage" in German), not for a month.
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