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LCDR O Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2016 Posts: 46 Location: Isabela, Puerto Rico
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Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 12:56 pm Post subject: Electrical relays original location and wiring for 1970 Ghia |
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Is there a good picture that show where the electrical relays (horn, headlight dim, flasher, etc) were originally mounted on the trunk?
Just acquired a 1970 Ghia but the wiring is a rat nest at best. I want to strip everything out and start with new wiring, but trying to keep it as much as OEM I can...
Thanks in advance. |
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sputnick60 Samba Moderator
Joined: July 22, 2007 Posts: 3914 Location: In Molinya Orbit
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jeffrey8164 Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 3815 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Electrical relays original location and wiring for 1970 Ghia |
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This shows the flasher relay in its stock location. The headlight relay has always just flopped around in there as far as I know. Same for my previous 71.
The wiring has always been a rats nest and I really think they came that way from the factory. Since it’s not really meant to be a show car, I just covered it with stereo.
_________________ Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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rbsurfguy Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2008 Posts: 1757 Location: Fairfax, Northern Virginia Formerly Huntington Beach, SoCal
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Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Electrical relays original location and wiring for 1970 Ghia |
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Thanks for bringing up this topic LCDR O, perfect timing as I was working on my wiring today and have some questions on relays.
In my bag of relays and connectors, I came upon this relay that I'm not exactly sure of where it connects:
As you can see, it has markings of 30, 56, 56a, 56b, and S. It has part number 141 951 253B In looking it up, it shows as a VW/Audi Multi Purpose relay. Looking intensely at my wiring diagram, until I'm cross-eyed, I can't find a corresponding relay with the same numbers:
In this pic, it shows the mounting tab. It also says made in Hungary.
My questions, can someone identify what this relay is for? Why is it bridged from 56 to 30? The wire and connectors are obviously not original, and also coming off the 30 pin, connected to the red wire, is a white wire with black stripe, Any clues?
My other question, should I use my original flasher relay or a more modern one that is still connected to the emergency flasher switch?
Thanks,
Jeff _________________ 1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold
See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight= |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12846 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: Electrical relays original location and wiring for 1970 Ghia |
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rbsurfguy wrote: |
As you can see, it has markings of 30, 56, 56a, 56b, and S. It has part number 141 951 253B In looking it up, it shows as a VW/Audi Multi Purpose relay. Looking intensely at my wiring diagram, until I'm cross-eyed, I can't find a corresponding relay with the same numbers:
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A relay like this was used as the high/low beam relay in my bus.
The one in my Ghia is not original but it too has a wire jumped back to itself. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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rbsurfguy Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2008 Posts: 1757 Location: Fairfax, Northern Virginia Formerly Huntington Beach, SoCal
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Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Electrical relays original location and wiring for 1970 Ghia |
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OK, thank you Sir. _________________ 1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold
See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight= |
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jeffrey8164 Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 3815 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Electrical relays original location and wiring for 1970 Ghia |
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It is multi purpose but but I believe it to be a horn relay.
The tab on the back is used to secure it into the little hole near the drivers headlight harness so it doesn’t flop around.
It can also be used for the rear defroster if your car is so equipped. _________________ Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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LCDR O Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2016 Posts: 46 Location: Isabela, Puerto Rico
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Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Electrical relays original location and wiring for 1970 Ghia |
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How come Germans, with their known discipline and strict standards will build a car with such a rat nest for wiring? |
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jeffrey8164 Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 3815 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Electrical relays original location and wiring for 1970 Ghia |
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My guess would be to keep the cost down. _________________ Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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runamoc Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006 Posts: 5600 Location: 37.5N 77.1W
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Electrical relays original location and wiring for 1970 Ghia |
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it's a headlight relay that with the lights on will switch between high and low. It also will allow the 'dimmer' stalk, when pulled back, without the headlight switch on, to flash the headlights. Like to pass somebody. _________________ Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 44 yrs - Plan B: '81 Rabbit Diesel LS Deluxe - Plan C: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs-
VW Wiring = It's just wires |
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rbsurfguy Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2008 Posts: 1757 Location: Fairfax, Northern Virginia Formerly Huntington Beach, SoCal
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Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Electrical relays original location and wiring for 1970 Ghia |
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Thanks for the clarification on the relay. Since I had one of the advertisers on the Samba build me and individual relay for each headlight, I'll just use those.
I figured it must be for the headlights and mounted near the drivers side, however, I also found in the course of having the bodywork done, that mount hole no longer exists, so the new relays will be mounted closer to the fuse panel on the dash support posts. I guess I can use this for the rear window defrost, since I have that for my convertible.
LCDR O, I was wondering the same, since I am just about finished connecting all my wires under the dash, trying to keep them as clean looking as possible, even the new wiring harness looks all jumbled and just a newer "Rats Nest". Now that I know where everything connects, i'll try to re route them to clean up and then zip tie them together for a cleaner look. In the end, I'm sure I'll have to use/make some type of cover like Jeffrey made, only not nearly as awesome!
Jeff _________________ 1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold
See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight= |
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marktodo Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2007 Posts: 19 Location: St. louis,Mo.
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Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Electrical relays original location and wiring for 1970 Ghia |
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My son and I are dealing with the same issue. I am used to working on 356's. In Jefferys picture above that shows the flasher relay. It looks like the same rats nest we have except ours has a lot of overspray. My primary docs that we are using is the Clymer wiring diagram , index downloaded from technical information and the index that comes with it ,and pages from owners guide iding fuse box and position of signal lights front and rear.. We aren't sure what relay is for what function. On trunk firewall on left side is that horn relay? The board above the fuse panel has 3 relays plugged in , which are those? At this point we have both rear turn signals on when ignition is on.
Location would really help us
thanks
mark |
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rbsurfguy Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2008 Posts: 1757 Location: Fairfax, Northern Virginia Formerly Huntington Beach, SoCal
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Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Electrical relays original location and wiring for 1970 Ghia |
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Mark, you didn't say what year your Ghia is. Also, when you say the "Index downloaded from the technical information" do you mean from here on the Samba?
I am wiring up my 71 and am using the diagrams downloaded from here and out of the Bentley manual. While confusing, it does identify the relays clearly(?). Are you talking about exactly where the relays mount within the rats nest? I'm still having problems with that as well, as I can't find any pics of an original behind the dash set up with the relays in their original locations for my specific year.
Jeff _________________ 1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold
See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight= |
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marktodo Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2007 Posts: 19 Location: St. louis,Mo.
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Electrical relays original location and wiring for 1970 Ghia |
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Jeff, mine is a72 convertible. Location and idling is the issue. Lots of prior owners have screwed around with it . All of the documentation is from the samba either this forum or the technical section. |
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rbsurfguy Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2008 Posts: 1757 Location: Fairfax, Northern Virginia Formerly Huntington Beach, SoCal
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Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:14 am Post subject: Re: Electrical relays original location and wiring for 1970 Ghia |
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Gotcha, thanks! _________________ 1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold
See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight= |
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