67 Sunroof Engine Build

[modok]

I've built more toyotas than Vw's
I even did one for Santa Claus himself.

[67 Sunroof]

[modok]

All the oil flying around inside the engine makes the temperature more even, cools whatever is hot, and heats whatever is cold. That's almost always a good thing.

[67 Sunroof]

Interesting link to oil restrictor plug feeding the #4 bearings.!!
Yes, it is a PLANE site but good info nonetheless...
http://www.greatplainsas.com/service1.html

[modok]

YES!
And while i have no REAL proof...

I suspect, that that "oil restrictor" is in fact a FILTER.
if you look at the SIZEs of the restrictor VS the hole in the bearing, the oil feed hole in the bearing is actually the restriction....so why?
The problem with using a tiny hole in the bearing..... is that......one spec of dirt, gunk......SO, they put a "stick in a hole" type restrictor just upstream to stop any particles just the right size to ruin it. Very clever.
BUt, even that will eventually plug up. Needs to be cleaned out every 30 years

[67 Sunroof]

Ha! So what about us VW newbies that decide to pull all the plugs to clean it out properly and then Realize “hey maybe I shouldn’t have touched that plug”?
I have it tapped and a plug but haven’t done anything yet. It is an odd type of plug though. So why “filter” that one channel instead of the others? Is that the first in the oil flow direction therefore it would get caught BEFORE going through the system?

[modok]

I had a case where it was all plugged up with oxidation, so I pulled it.

Not worried.
With modern oil, full flow GOOD quality filter, and not putting 1/4" beads silicone sealant on everything there won't be any problem.

Funny thing is it took me YEARS to realize That's what it was. I thought maybe in the OLD days the bearing didn't have a small hole, so I've been looking OUt for a old bearing wit a big hole for years....but there aren't any.

[nsracing]

we have been thru this before on the #4 restrictor. the #4 only has to feed the single bearing. why do you think the restrictor was more upstream? Maybe the Germans knew something...

if u pull that restrictor will probably flood the #4 bearing and spew oil behind the pulley.

try it out and let us know.

[67 Sunroof]

I’ve read MANY threads on this. Both theories certainly make sense to me.
And I also read where people have just plugged it and after 10,000 miles it started flinging oil from behind the pulley.
I don’t want this problem. I can’t remember which thread but he machined a plug with a “hex” head that stuck out on the outside and a barrel welded on the other side to mimick the original design. I’ll have to find the pic.
The “filter” idea makes sense to me! But also the restriction idea too.
Confused. Ugh.

[modok]

[KTPhil]

Biggest question not yet asked, which I think of every time I see the thread title, is:

What the hell is a "sunroof engine"?

I've seen "windows" in valve covers, but never a "sunroof" in a case.

Inquiring minds want to know.

[67 Sunroof]

[67 Sunroof]

Ok so I am back at the motor build after finishing up my Ruckus scooter...
Today I decided to put the oil relief plugs in and make sure they were opening and closing smoothly. They bound up a bit where I drilled/tapped the case for screw in plugs. What do you guys do after you tap the holes for the plugs? How do you deburr the holes so the relief valve plugs move up and down smoothly?
Also, on the shorter spring....I have 2 short springs and one is a few millimeters longer than the other? In my Bentley it lists the long spring length but not the small ones length. What should the length be?

AND:

I tapped the plug that has the restrictor plug/filter. After reading many articles I feel that [email protected] is correct saying that I should tap the hole below the bearing and drill a hole in and make it a “restrictor plugged” hole.
What size hole should I make it to help limit the amount of oil going to the #4 bearing. Picture of what I am talking about below:
Ideas?

[Clatter]

Wow. Great build, and read..

I like Modok’s theory about the restrictor plug.
Makes good sense - the little piece of swarf would hit that plug in one spot,
Then there would still be flow around the plug in other areas.
Instead of plugging up the feed hole to #1 bearing..

In our motors, with the removed restrictor, we will have some risk.
A piece of trash up there -might- just plug the feed hole.

Here’s where my experience comes into play,
Having done this mod, and been just fine, and with no sand-seal.

The only reason, IMHO, that people have had leak issues after this mod is for other reasons.
Other reasons that either cause more crank-case pressure,
Or restrict venting..

Invariably, the guy who plugs his galley also has poor cylinder prep, or washes down the cylinders with fuel or turns way more RPM or has increased displacement or...
That same guy will also use one of those tiny custom aluminum oil fillers; the one with the breather vent hole WAY too small.

So,
Leaks at the pulley are blamed on the restrictor plug,
When that’s not the real reason.
If the motor is oil tight, the pulley is going to leak, because it’s really the best place where pressure can freely escape.
Anything causing pressure will cause the case vent there..

People’s analysis will be dead wrong; more than one thing changed.


FWIW,
I have a case with the restrictor tapped/plugged,
And it doesn’t leak.


Interestingly, the type 4 uses the same restrictor,
So they must have felt the design a success.


Also,
I like to port case windows on any motor.
Ported -and- polished and matched..
Look at where the volume me of air/oil under the pistons has to go/move during the operation of the motor.
How could it possibly not help if the flow between adjacent cylinders is eased?
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

Did John specify what size hole?

Is it a different size than the feed hole in #4?
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[67 Sunroof]

Thanks for your replies. I stopped getting traffic and wasn’t getting answers to some of my questions so I figured you guys gave up on me...
Except NS and Modok. Hahaha!
John mentioned in a post to measure the restrictor plug and do some math to come up with the area volume and then tap the #4 journal and drill a small hole in the tap that would equal the same area of the restrictor plug.
Good idea!
BUT,
I think without the restrictor/filter and a full flow GOOD filter, and proper case prep and cleaning I will be fine.
I’m not quite sure it is a restrictor. The stock “filter” if you want to call it is hardly a filter. Any trash that makes its way past that would get caught in the restrictor/filter plug before being fed to the main bearings is my theory.
So here are some more pictures to go along with my questions. Modok has already answered the spring length question but this is what I was talking about:
I have 2 sets of oe springs, plungers, screws, etc. the one small spring is slightly shorter than the other and I wanted to know which what was supposed to be the proper size.

The cam bearings. I went to lay them in their journals but quickly realized there were 2 different sizes?? I checked in the Bentley, and the Wilson book and could not come up with an answer on placement on the bearings. Do the wider ones go on the end journal or the middle journal?

And can you elaborate on the windows? Mine is only a 1776. I’ve opened them slightly and de-burred the case as much as I could.

[Clatter]

Here’s one I did a while back that shows some case prep.
FWIW..
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=692654&highlight=beater
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Teeroy]

Wider ones in middle
_________________
Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org

[67 Sunroof]

I hate to ask suck elementary questions but you have to start somewhere right?
Thank you

[67 Sunroof]