| Author |
Message |
The Big Cheese
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2019
Posts: 72
Location: Annapolis, MD
|
 Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 7:01 am Post subject: Painting seams after seam repair |
 |
|
Repairing cracked seams (taping, sandblasting, treating, resealing, etc.) has been thoroughly discussed but I would appreciate some guidance on painting the seams after the repair has been made. I would like a consistent look between the newly painted seams and the surrounding body panel paint (which is in great shape).
*The seams that I'm repairing have minor cracks and only slight seam rust. There is no major rust that will cause more than just the seam sealer/rust to be removed* |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bobbyblack 
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4348
Location: United States, Iowa
|
| Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Painting seams after seam repair |
|
|
If you want it to look as it did from the factory, don't forget to make it a little calk-bead bump like, and slightly inconsistent. Folks who run their finger or whatever down the seam and make it an slightly indented U shape and all fancy looking are 'upgrading' the look, in my opinion.
But, ya, its bare metal, seam seal, paint with best option primer (some say epoxy, other argue self etching) then base coat, sand, base coat, sand, base coat, sand, sand, sand, topcoat, sand, topcoat, rub with diaper.
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mikemtnbike
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015
Posts: 2794
Location: North Carolina
|
| Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Painting seams after seam repair |
|
|
Not-pro tip: I lightly ran over my seam with the little wheel tool you use to install window screens, gave it a very nice finished look. I was really happy with this as I am terrible with a caulk gun and was not happy with how it looked before using this tool.
For painting, well, I rocked primer gray for a while until I re-painted the whole van, so can't really answer your specific question
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled  https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bulli Klinik
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2005
Posts: 2076
Location: Bulli Klinik, Colorado Springs
|
| Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 7:27 am Post subject: Re: Painting seams after seam repair |
|
|
| bobbyblack wrote: |
If you want it to look as it did from the factory, don't forget to make it a little calk-bead bump like, and slightly inconsistent. Folks who run their finger or whatever down the seam and make it an slightly indented U shape and all fancy looking are 'upgrading' the look, in my opinion.
But, ya, its bare metal, seam seal, paint with best option primer (some say epoxy, other argue self etching) then base coat, sand, base coat, sand, base coat, sand, sand, sand, topcoat, sand, topcoat, rub with diaper. |
I've never thought of this prior you mentioning it, but this may be one of the causes of seam rust. The original seam sealer has a ridge which may invite water infiltration into the seam. IMO, the main cause of seam rust is any sort of displacement of the panel due to minor accidents, though the ridge on the original sealer could exacerbate the issue.
I'm going to go for the upgrade look and hopefully it flashes off the water better than the ridge look.
To the original poster, it will be far easier and you will have a better result painting the entire panel.
_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Big Cheese
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2019
Posts: 72
Location: Annapolis, MD
|
| Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Painting seams after seam repair |
|
|
| Bulli Klinik wrote: |
| bobbyblack wrote: |
If you want it to look as it did from the factory, don't forget to make it a little calk-bead bump like, and slightly inconsistent. Folks who run their finger or whatever down the seam and make it an slightly indented U shape and all fancy looking are 'upgrading' the look, in my opinion.
But, ya, its bare metal, seam seal, paint with best option primer (some say epoxy, other argue self etching) then base coat, sand, base coat, sand, base coat, sand, sand, sand, topcoat, sand, topcoat, rub with diaper. |
I've never thought of this prior you mentioning it, but this may be one of the causes of seam rust. The original seam sealer has a ridge which may invite water infiltration into the seam. IMO, the main cause of seam rust is any sort of displacement of the panel due to minor accidents, though the ridge on the original sealer could exacerbate the issue.
I'm going to go for the upgrade look and hopefully it flashes off the water better than the ridge look.
To the original poster, it will be far easier and you will have a better result painting the entire panel. |
I'm definitely going for the upgraded look as it looks a lot better and seems more practical.
I was hoping to see some pictures from someone that has painted just the seams without painting the entire panel. I do agree with you though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4082
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
|
| Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Painting seams after seam repair |
|
|
I also wanted to fix some seam sealer that has cracked over time but didn't want to mess up a decent factory paint job so I went this route:
After taping close to the seam I used a small high speed saw to clean out the old seam sealer (careful not to cut into the spot welds). Then sanded as needed, Ospho'ed to treat any rust, cleaned thoroughly, primed, painted, painted again with matching body color paint, resealed.
This is after cutting out old sealer but before sanding, etc.
I used a Dremel type tool with a flexible drive and small head to keep the tool at right angles to body.
Here it is after painting and before sealer.
I didn't bother to take an after picture, it looks like a slightly crooked (and in some spots messy) factory bead.
Getting the sealer into the seam with a clean bead involves first putting a very thin bead into the seam, smoothing into the crack, cleaning off excess, and then going over it again with another bead.
It's a pain to get it looking factory.
After the sealer cured (about a week) I taped and painted again with matching body color paint.
It's raining now, but I'll try to remember to get a picture later today of the result after three years.
_________________
Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Big Cheese
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2019
Posts: 72
Location: Annapolis, MD
|
| Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Painting seams after seam repair |
|
|
| MsTaboo wrote: |
Getting the sealer into the seam with a clean bead involves first putting a very thin bead into the seam, smoothing into the crack, cleaning off excess, and then going over it again with another bead.
It's a pain to get it looking factory.
After the sealer cured (about a week) I taped and painted again with matching body color paint.
It's raining now, but I'll try to remember to get a picture later today of the result after three years. |
Sweet! I look forward to seeing the picture. In the meantime, did the paint on the sealer look fine when compared to the body paint? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4082
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
|
| Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Painting seams after seam repair |
|
|
| The Big Cheese wrote: |
| Sweet! I look forward to seeing the picture. In the meantime, did the paint on the sealer look fine when compared to the body paint? |
Paint looks fine, slightly different, but then I was looking for a difference. Not really noticeable.
Couple things I forgot to mention. Before cutting out the old sealer I first used a sharp blade to slice the edges of the sealer to free it from the body paint and remove bulk sealer. This helped to keep the saw blade in the groove and not jump out.
Last step, I also used a clear top coat over the color match paint to provide extra protection. Most cans of color matched rattle paint are pretty low quality and need a good clear coat to protect.
Allow the various paints to fully cure between types of paint. Check the info about cure times (not dry time, different). It doesn't always matter, but sometimes different paints don't play well together if not cured.
_________________
Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dark Alley Dan
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005
Posts: 184
Location: The Land of Wind and Ghosts (AKA Edmonton, AB)
|
| Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: Painting seams after seam repair |
|
|
At risk of uttering blasphemy...
...has anyone welded those seams up, perhaps lead-filled or somesuch, and smoothed a van out a little? It always seemed (sorry) those seams were a great way to introduce moisture into a small dark crevice where it can spread, unimpeded by an owner's best efforts to defeat it.
The multitude of seam-rot vans out there would appear to confirm this. Would it not be best to weld the panels, fill the seams, and kill one known point of failure?
_________________
Dark Alley Dan
______________________
I blame rap music. For everything. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RoryGirl
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016
Posts: 778
Location: WestWorld Nanaimo BC
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Big Cheese
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2019
Posts: 72
Location: Annapolis, MD
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Painting seams after seam repair |
|
|
I'm still trying to determine which route I should go -- 1) paint just the seams 2) paint the seams along with the corresponding panel.
I could knock out option 1 on a weekend where as option 2 would need to be performed by someone with the necessary equipment and skill set. Option 1 would be cheaper, quicker while option 2 would be doing it 'the right way', more expensive, and more time consuming.
Help me decide -- show me your seams! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32561
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Big Cheese
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2019
Posts: 72
Location: Annapolis, MD
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:45 am Post subject: Re: Painting seams after seam repair |
|
|
| djkeev wrote: |
Don't get carried away.
Get a small can of paint that matches quite well, carefully cut out the seams (as I did using a Fien multimaster (or similar knockoff) ......... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...;start=140 )
Carefully and neatly put in the new seam sealer and paint using a small artist brush just on top of the new seam sealer.
Dave |
I'm assuming your seam repair ended up holding up and looking nice after painting? Or did you end up painting the entire van afterward the seam repair? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32561
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6520
Location: Westfalia, Earth
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Painting seams after seam repair |
|
|
Not sure when I'll get around to this, but my plan is this:
-- Use Prep-Sol (wax & grease remover) liberally in/near seams, let dry
-- Tape off seam areas with paper masking tape
-- Use folded sandpaper edges, 80 grit if rough, 220 where smooth
-- Remove as little paint and sealer as possible!
-- Use sealer only where/if necessary -- none where not cracked or rusted
-- Re-tape with 3M vinyl to exactly the same edge points
-- Mix my color using alkyd enamel sign paint (One-Shot Lettering Enamel)
-- Use a pinstriping brush lightly-thinned with Edge-brand thinner or mineral spirits, one coat/day, light scuff between coats until sealed by paint
I am a firm believer that unless the paint and sealer has been displaced by rust, or is severely cracked, the old materials are our friends. Ask any painter.
I also know by a ton of experience that this paint can be applied over clean, bare metal to great effect. About a decade ago I saw a local, 1981 280ZX with steel wheels I detail-painted the inserts on in 1981. The paint looked like it was done a year ago.
If I'd used crappy, commonly-available primer and paint on those wheels, they'd probably have looked marginal by 1990 -- if that.
I'll keep a jar of the mixed color for the life of the van for touching up.
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RoryGirl
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016
Posts: 778
Location: WestWorld Nanaimo BC
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Painting seams after seam repair |
|
|
I never see much mentioned about the backside of the seams that are covered in undercoating.
This is from probably the best "looking" seam on my van that appeared very light on the outside with no sign of rust on the undercoat side. Once I got the undercoat off, you can see that the rust is moving towards the inside of the van and attending to this is obviously impossible from the outside.
Anyways...you may want to attack seams from inside and out. Maybe I'm just stating the obvious though.
_________________
1991 Double door pop top conversion |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32561
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4082
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: Painting seams after seam repair |
|
|
OK, I finally got around to taking some pictures of my seam repair from three years ago. Been busy getting my partner set up with the van for a couple weeks of work-camping.
Not very good photos, hard to get a good shot on a plain white background, and the van was dirty. Wiped it down as best I could and grabbed a few pics while loading the van.
This one is where I smoothed the sealer with my finger, hard to see but there are some very small cracks in the paint covering the sealer. The sealer itself is still fairly soft, I can press my fingernail into the stuff. Absolutely no rust under the sealer.
This shot is where I tried to replicate the factory look by first smoothing the sealer into the seam, letting it cure for a couple days and then going back over it with another small bead. Came out kinda lumpy and it's holding some dirt but again no rust. I guess that's all that really matters.
There are a few places where the sealer has picked up dirt that wouldn't clean off. The cheap color match paint has cracked. Guess I'll go back and redo those places while I tackle a couple new spots that need help.
The paint on the metal panels is still nice and tight, but the sealer has remained kinda soft and I think thats why the paint on top of the sealer is failing.
_________________
Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6520
Location: Westfalia, Earth
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: Painting seams after seam repair |
|
|
FWIW:
You absolutely, positively should never put paint over *anything* that has not fully cured.
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4082
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Painting seams after seam repair |
|
|
| E1 wrote: |
FWIW:
You absolutely, positively should never put paint over *anything* that has not fully cured. |
I agree, read my above posts.
_________________
Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
