Building a towbar to carry on the Vanagon

[dobryan]

[Zeitgeist 13]

If you can strap the dolly and a tow vehicle under the van, then you're good as gold.
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[Sodo]

[Sodo]

Heres the seven rivnuts.

OK mostly done,,, just need a place to carry the center portion, and work out the safety chains, and the taillights.

With seven bolts.
Need countersunk bolts on the front side.

Towbar arms stowed, bolted to the Syncro skid bars with rivnuts.

The towbar & its mounting lugs weighs 25 lbs total.
Slight rub here,,, that Reese that DanfromSyr posted, the one that you can take apart to shorten etc, weighs "31 lbs" (AFAIK)
so I didn't save a lot on weight.
I thought I was gonna kill them on weight. I bet the Harbor Freight one is heavy...
But this one "fits" my van very well !
I hope it just remains bolted to the underside.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Abscate]

[bobbyblack]

[Sodo]

[Sodo]

Ok this was a good observation Bobby.

I looked up the specs and an M8 rivnut is rated at 450 lbs pullout strength.
Its all on that little crimp ring. I wondered if there’s already a “safety factor” on that 450lbs rating.

So I rigged up a test device with steel same thickness as the vanagon bumper and pulled one thru myself.

Heres the gearboy scribbling.

This test rivnut withstood 2400lbs pullout. Then I increased my lever, and it pulled thru easily. So I don’t know what the real number was, but it did withstand 2400 lbs. By my test seven rivnuts is 2400 x 7 = 16,800lbs (33,600 for 14!). Hmmm

Check this out, the M8 rivnut joint put up quite the battle.
It held 2400 lbs. (pulled thru at some tension above 2400 lbs).

So that tells me there’s already a safety factor on the 450lb rating, so I can just “use” the 450lb rating. So 7 nuts holds 3150 lbs and 14 holds 6300 lbs per rated strength..
sorta...

I prefer a bigger “rated” number than 6300 lbs.
Im gonna fish a couple real nuts in there...... somehow.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Sodo]

OK now it's really "done".

Now with two M10 thru-bolts, with nut-plates.
Rivnuts are great, but not for towing.
Yes this is better.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[bobbyblack]

Yes, better!
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[bobbyblack]

As for what to put your chains on, of course, the standard tow loop would be good, but for some reason, VW didn't put TWO on... I think the best solution is to get yourself another stock (or stock-like) loop, and weld it in place.

Here is Brickwerks version, and I think Busdepot has these, but no pictures..

https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/towing-eye-t3-front.html

If so inclined, MORE than two chains can be used. So, get 3 for a total of 4 loops on your rig.. You're already in over-achiever land, so why not?
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[DuncanS]

[Tbob]

I, too, would be concerned with pullout, even as you have modified it. The leverage of the attachment points above the deformation piece concerns me also. Straight line pulling would be the best.
I have flat towed VW Type 2's and Vanagons all over the country, usually with fullsize American trucks or vans. Never had a problem.
There is a thread on here about making a tow bracket that goes through through the front deformation piece to terminate under the van using existing holes and 1/2 inch bolts from a reputable source, like Granger or Fastenall. I used this method, and modified it using shimmed through spacers and larger plates for spreading the load underneath the van(there are 2 large oval shaped holes in the deformation piece that go through to a larger hole underneath the van (one on either side near where the spare tire rails(rods) hook in) on the cross member. I made some angled pieces so I would not bend the sheet metal when I tightened it down, and large plates underneath where the big holes are, and sections of 3/4 pipe cut and shimmed with washers between the deformation piece and the inside of the crossmember. P. S., this system is used with the bumper removed. one could cut holes in the bumper to let the u brackets poke through, but I didn't. I hope I am describing this correctly, as I haven't the ability to take and post pictures.
Anyway, This has worked flawlessly as I have been transferring my vans from Southern Indiana to the Gulf coast. I believe RacerRojo came up with this concept, I just modified it. Straight pull, and I used a Reese non dissembleable towbar with my brackets. Use the towbar u brackest under the large bolts. drill and cotterpin the bolts so the nuts cannot back off, and although relying on just one big bolt per side concerns me, it is obviously how they do it with the Jeeps and all that the tow bar is always shown on in the promotional literature. Good safety chains, Some sort of lights(I haven't tried the magnetic lights, but around here, the tow companies even use some sort of magnetic lights.
As a side note, on my 1980 westy, the PO bolted the u mounts for the towbar onto just the deformation piece, but by cutting holes in the top with a torch(hidden when the bumper is on) to reach the nuts. I wouldn't do it that way, but he towed it several times across country as his job kept transferring him. It worked for him a lot, and it took the guesswork out of how much to shim the throughbolts that I had to do to get it where I wanted it. But I was still happier where I was transferring the load of pulling to.
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1969 Deluxe, owned since 1973
1973 Westfalia, owned since 1983
1980 Westfalia, watercooled conversion
1985 Westfalia, stock!
1986 Westfakia, Audi I-4 conversion
A couple of trucks and a couple of Jeeps

[clift_d]

[danfromsyr]

he's referring tho this thread with great details from Dave

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8059361

there is also a factory vanagon baseplate available for those w/o fab skills..
though Dave's post above doesn't require any fabrication either, but does require removing the bumper skin which the factory base doesn't

https://www.etrailer.com/Base-Plates/Roadmaster/1208-1.html
Roadmaster Crossbar-Style Base Plate Kit - Fixed Arms
Item # 1208-1

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[danfromsyr]

more about the roadmaster brackets in these 2 threads


from this thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4780390

[4Gears4Tires]

I flat towed my BMW 325ix rallycross car (also awd with a center viscous couple, similar to the Syncro set up) quite a lot last year. I did not need to uncouple/remove the front driveshaft or rear driveshaft or whatever. It was 100% fine. I towed several hundred miles at a time, if there was an issue with the fluid overheating and cooking the transfercase, believe I would have found out at turn 1 of the track. It was fine. I used a cheap $60 tow bar off Amazon because an e30 is 2900lbs and my tow vehicle is a 5000lb Ford Explorer.

My issues with the OP's tow bar set up:

1. It has no flex at the end, which is going to make hooking it up tricky. Everything has to line up perfect the first time, you can't get things close, connect it, pull on it to get it straight and tighten it down. With my e30 rallycross car, it was always a pain, I can't imagine trying to wrangle a Vanagon in place.

2. At 4000lbs-ish and very susceptible to cross winds, unless you're towing with a legit tow truck, like a F-250 Super Duty Dually, you really should consider tow brakes. They're expensive at around a grand, yes, but how easily can you replace your Vanagon? The black F-150 in the background might be cutting it really close.

3. I am hoping that bolt through the arms and the bracket is just for placement and an actual Safety Pin with wire snap and cotter pin will be used.
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'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition

[bobbyblack]

My concern was with the design and intended use of the rivnuts. I'm not an engineer, but sometimes I see possible scenarios that may or may not exist. My thought is that rivnuts are good for things that generally don't get much jostling, and if they needed to spec for pull-out, and your test shows good-on-that there may be an additional concern for a work-wear-related scenario. I have to say I would be concerned that the sidewalls of the rivnuts, already being something that a tool was used to expand, could work-loosen with lateral forces and become wobbly in their holes. Anyway, the two additional fasteners you put in are helpful, but I still fear that the steel you have now put multiple holes into has become strength compromised. As a solution, I would suggest that you take at least two of those locations and use a steel pipe that goes all the way through to the bottom. Weld top and bottom, and grind flat. Here is a drawring I hope will come true. Then you can drop a nice hardened bolt through the whole housing. You could add another plate, similar to the one you have on top to the bottom, making the whole design you have into a C shape that surrounds the nose.

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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[Sodo]

If the bolts came loose the rivnuts could “work”. If it was tensioned the “wrong way” of course it would loosen the crimp.
But When you first tighten the bolt, it pulls the threaded portion down harder and the rivnut completely forgets about the crimp tool.

2400 lbs pullout x 14 bolts = 33,600 lbs. (sorta). Pretty sure I can count on something like 10,000 lbs from the rivnuts alone.

Then theres the four additional M10x25mm genuinely nutted bolts. Those four M10s are about the same as the four bolts used on the commercially available towbars. Except its bolting onto .090 sheet —- but spread over 18 locations.

If I was going to attach this to an RV and tow it indiscriminately (interstates) I’d do what you wrote. But this its just a stashable unit to get the van home if it breaks down. Driving slowly carefully, checking it often. Ive built a lot of stuff.

Bobby your drawing is good, I’d use that for a “recovery lug”. Its truly better for a straight forward pull. BTW Id like to see how those other lugs attach to a Vanagon. I bet you have to remove the windshield washer tank. (Which is pretty easy).

The real reason for strength here is to remain attached if you have to “react”. Like if it starts to side-swap. Then you’re onto a different set of rules. Breakaway into oncoming traffic? Or jacknife both vehicles (into oncoming traffic). Choose your poison. Best to never tow faster than 50 (45?) which means side roads; not FWY. Not making time, making your destination.

There’s some level of safety afforded by sensible and very seldom use. It would be great to pre-test it and have the towed-driver reef on it. I’ve done a bit of rope-towing and I like this better. I have a car trailer too, with brakes (capacity 5700lbs). Also I have a dump-trailer 9,000 lbs. I know what its like when the electric brakes aren’t working with 9,000 lbs.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[E1]

That looks great, Sodo.

Great safety advocating by Bobby, and equal testing in reply. Engineering on the Samba! 👍🏼
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‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman