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New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend
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EmpiGT
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

mandraks wrote:
Abscate wrote:
You will have to have a VIN to get this on the road, otherwise its a 2019 model and you have to pass safety and emissions for 2019

Not happening.

In my state, possession of a separate VIN plate is a crime.


if a company does not produce more than 350 vehicles a year it is perfectly legal to build cars and sell them. this was decided a couple of years ago

Is this per the law quoted earlier in the thread. What about the EPA approved engines in that law? I'm sure no aircooled vw motor is on that approved list.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

mandraks wrote:
obus wrote:
this is so odd. a customer of mine(of India background) showed me how a company in the US makes imitation Jeeps and sends them over to India. Spitting images.

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/03/03/mahindra-roxor...-a-diesel/


mahindra is in india and has an official license to build Jeeps for the india market


Jeep-like.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

EmpiGT wrote:
mandraks wrote:
Abscate wrote:
You will have to have a VIN to get this on the road, otherwise its a 2019 model and you have to pass safety and emissions for 2019

Not happening.

In my state, possession of a separate VIN plate is a crime.


if a company does not produce more than 350 vehicles a year it is perfectly legal to build cars and sell them. this was decided a couple of years ago

Is this per the law quoted earlier in the thread. What about the EPA approved engines in that law? I'm sure no aircooled vw motor is on that approved list.


looks like at minimum it has to be obd2 compliant.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

mandraks wrote:
obus wrote:
this is so odd. a customer of mine(of India background) showed me how a company in the US makes imitation Jeeps and sends them over to India. Spitting images.

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/03/03/mahindra-roxor...-a-diesel/


mahindra is in india and has an official license to build Jeeps for the india market


They advertise them here in the states, saw commercials for them on Motortrend TV as well as Rush Limbaugh on the radio.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

gitchesum wrote:
Quote:
(we are on the verge of the "model T syndrome" where what was worth 25-30k in the 80's can be had for 8-10k today. the guys who loved them are dead...same is happening here.

everyone who wants one has one...those who think they could have cashed out for big $$ lost and should have sold when the market was hot...anyway I would still build one vs pulling some gutted carcass out of the woods. I don't know...I put a different value on things. got my first bus when I was 11...a 15 window for 150.00. I was never in in for the $$....some people however think they can retire off of this stuff


Yes the Model T syndrome did happen. But VWs are a different ball game. Every 4 year old kid in the world knows what a VW is....this isnt age related like the T was.


sure...every 4 year old knows what it is...but if it doesn't have a touch screen, they aren't interested. they will never have the emotional connection, therefore they won't carry the torch

there aren't too many 11-15 year old screwing with stuff anymore. I grew up where I had no choice but to fix what was at my disposal.....therefore honing my skills...

we are the last of a breed that will get our hands dirty for this stuff judging by what's going on. furthermore....most won't be able to afford to own a second car, let alone some old vw...fuck....I'd say 1/2 or better here can barely afford what they own by seeing some posts....
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
gitchesum wrote:
Quote:
(we are on the verge of the "model T syndrome" where what was worth 25-30k in the 80's can be had for 8-10k today. the guys who loved them are dead...same is happening here.

everyone who wants one has one...those who think they could have cashed out for big $$ lost and should have sold when the market was hot...anyway I would still build one vs pulling some gutted carcass out of the woods. I don't know...I put a different value on things. got my first bus when I was 11...a 15 window for 150.00. I was never in in for the $$....some people however think they can retire off of this stuff


Yes the Model T syndrome did happen. But VWs are a different ball game. Every 4 year old kid in the world knows what a VW is....this isnt age related like the T was.


sure...every 4 year old knows what it is...but if it doesn't have a touch screen, they aren't interested. they will never have the emotional connection, therefore they won't carry the torch

there aren't too many 11-15 year old screwing with stuff anymore. I grew up where I had no choice but to fix what was at my disposal.....therefore honing my skills...

we are the last of a breed that will get our hands dirty for this stuff judging by what's going on. furthermore....most won't be able to afford to own a second car, let alone some old vw...fuck....I'd say 1/2 or better here can barely afford what they own by seeing some posts....


I wouldn't be quite so pessimistic.
There is a huge movement towards STEM education right now. And YouTube is revealing a whole new group of people sharing mechanical techniques for design and repair.

Lots of young kids are embracing the concept of fixing their own shit. Look at the push for "Right to Repair" legislation.

All of this and more are out there. I know of several "kids" in their early twenties rocking rusty buses which they found for peanuts, and have learned to weld just so they can get them street legal.

There is something about these buses (and beetles) which attracts younger people. Not as many teenagers longing to own a '57 Chevy as much as a '57 bus.
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Busstom
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

I'd tend to agree...I saw a bunch of young people at the Sac BugOrama a couple weeks ago. And a few hours ago, I sold my '48 Chevy to a dude and his son who couldn't wait to get it home and start digging in.
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gitchesum
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:30 pm    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

Yep... thats what Im seeing. We have gear heads in the family as young as 4.
They are all familiar with family members projects and jump in as long as they can hold their attention. If these young people cant buy a bus, theyll get a newer bug. Again, I see all age groups at meets.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:17 pm    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

I also agree.

When we take our bus around, we have young people, both men and women, saying they want a bus, and our explaining the drawbacks doesn't phase them. Plus, there is no way production of these bodies, and the number of people building them, will ever produce enough of them to put a dent in the market. It's not like Hannover cranking them out by the thousands. If anything, they'll help offset the natural attrition rate that is still happening.

Bottom line, we dig VW buses. Not only does this keep the hobby alive, but it helps recycle buses that have reached the end of their life cycle. Plus it keeps people employed making all the bits and pieces needed to assemble one.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:05 pm    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

Lind wrote:
I don't care about their value, just how much the next one will cost me.


Fucking gold, I tell ya.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the new electric VW bus coming out in relation to future values. There will be lots of publicity and general awareness of the bus because of this. The modern VW brand is still considered a "cool" brand in the marketplace with a die hard following. I don't think it will raise values, but I do think it will keep the "Model T" scenario from happening.

As pointed out earlier, the bus is still highway worthy, unlike the model T. More importantly, however, the bus has mid century modern styling. That is a very popular style and it isn't going anywhere anytime soon. No one is designing their house to look like the 1920's....but every flip on HGTV has 1950's elements in it...even down to the Herman Miller repro dining chairs....
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
gitchesum wrote:
Quote:
(we are on the verge of the "model T syndrome" where what was worth 25-30k in the 80's can be had for 8-10k today. the guys who loved them are dead...same is happening here.

everyone who wants one has one...those who think they could have cashed out for big $$ lost and should have sold when the market was hot...anyway I would still build one vs pulling some gutted carcass out of the woods. I don't know...I put a different value on things. got my first bus when I was 11...a 15 window for 150.00. I was never in in for the $$....some people however think they can retire off of this stuff


Yes the Model T syndrome did happen. But VWs are a different ball game. Every 4 year old kid in the world knows what a VW is....this isnt age related like the T was.


sure...every 4 year old knows what it is...but if it doesn't have a touch screen, they aren't interested. they will never have the emotional connection, therefore they won't carry the torch

there aren't too many 11-15 year old screwing with stuff anymore. I grew up where I had no choice but to fix what was at my disposal.....therefore honing my skills...

we are the last of a breed that will get our hands dirty for this stuff judging by what's going on. furthermore....most won't be able to afford to own a second car, let alone some old vw...fuck....I'd say 1/2 or better here can barely afford what they own by seeing some posts....




Chill out Mr. Grumpy pants

This type of attitude is what killed the model t crowd and is bringing the demise to the street rod culture.


Gerrr I'm old and don't like young people, young people are lazy, I'm going to group all young people into a single category, I'm not going to pass the torch because my generation was the best



P.S. get off my lawn

Now to go drink a case of Geritol
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

sub-hatchtim wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
gitchesum wrote:
Quote:
(we are on the verge of the "model T syndrome" where what was worth 25-30k in the 80's can be had for 8-10k today. the guys who loved them are dead...same is happening here.

everyone who wants one has one...those who think they could have cashed out for big $$ lost and should have sold when the market was hot...anyway I would still build one vs pulling some gutted carcass out of the woods. I don't know...I put a different value on things. got my first bus when I was 11...a 15 window for 150.00. I was never in in for the $$....some people however think they can retire off of this stuff


Yes the Model T syndrome did happen. But VWs are a different ball game. Every 4 year old kid in the world knows what a VW is....this isnt age related like the T was.


sure...every 4 year old knows what it is...but if it doesn't have a touch screen, they aren't interested. they will never have the emotional connection, therefore they won't carry the torch

there aren't too many 11-15 year old screwing with stuff anymore. I grew up where I had no choice but to fix what was at my disposal.....therefore honing my skills...

we are the last of a breed that will get our hands dirty for this stuff judging by what's going on. furthermore....most won't be able to afford to own a second car, let alone some old vw...fuck....I'd say 1/2 or better here can barely afford what they own by seeing some posts....




Chill out Mr. Grumpy pants

This type of attitude is what killed the model t crowd and is bringing the demise to the street rod culture.


Gerrr I'm old and don't like young people, young people are lazy, I'm going to group all young people into a single category, I'm not going to pass the torch because my generation was the best



P.S. get off my lawn

Now to go drink a case of Geritol


I think that [email protected] post is simply his observation, not necessarily pessimistic, just reality as he sees it unfolding.
Same with Douglas D, just with different potential outcomes.

One cannot dismiss the observation that there are fewer kids interested in getting their hands dirty to keep a car running. The simple fact that one needs a degree in electrical engineering just to pop the hood on modern cars is killing the DIY scene.

Yes, split buses are a modern cultural icon, but in order for them to survive the present generation of bus owners, they have to be affordable to the next generation of potential bus owners.
That is not currently happening.

I see a parallel with split buses and 356's. There is much consternation and hand wringing going on amongst the old white men who make up the ownership of 356's as to how to get younger people interested in them so their hobby will not die.
The only real way to do that (I think) is to make them affordable to a younger demographic.
In order for that to happen, there has to be a market correction.
For that to happen, they must fall out of favour with pop culture.
Then, they have to make a resurgence.
That certainly happened once with split buses, but will it happen again?

One thing that all vintage air cooled vehicles have going for them is that they lend themselves well to electric conversion, which is undoubtedly the wave of the future.
Adapt or perish. Some may be mortified by the thought of converting their A/C VW to electric, but it might just be the adaptation that saves them all from the recycler over the next hundred years.
Perhaps the new bus bodies will find a niche there?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

Braukuche wrote:
It's exactly what they do with those fiberglass speedsters and as far as I know those are legal in most states.


Are you talking about those Beetle-based kit cars? Are they registered as a Porsche Speedster, or does the title call it whatever year Beetle they got the donor pan from?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

Riff Raff wrote:


One thing that all vintage air cooled vehicles have going for them is that they lend themselves well to electric conversion, which is undoubtedly the wave of the future.
Adapt or perish. Some may be mortified by the thought of converting their A/C VW to electric, but it might just be the adaptation that saves them all from the recycler over the next hundred years.
Perhaps the new bus bodies will find a niche there?


I think you're on to something there. Remember back in the late 90s when VW was floundering and about to pull out of the US market altogether? It was the hype over Concept One and the eventual New Beetle that ultimately saved them. Then once the New Beetle went on sale in 1998 suddenly there was a huge surge of interest in aircooled bugs. Suddenly they were a lot more cool and relevant, thus desirable. New Beetle owners then wanted to get classic bug to park next to it in the garage. I wouldn't be surprised if we see something similar happen now that VW is officially coming out with a new bus. Only now electric conversions are becoming more common, and before long affordable retrofit kits will start popping up. Expect to see more and more electric VW conversions in coming years. There's also the whole #vanlife thing going on that'll add more fuel to the fire. There is going to be a growing market for a new "vintage" rolling chassis.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

When we old white fat guys want your Splits again, we will pass legislation to slap a TUV inspection on them, add a $10,000 a year reg fee on them, drain all the whiny Millennial inherited 401ks and stocks, then buy them at a pittance

Greatest and vets of Viet Nam and previous wars will be exempt from the fees, because those are the rules, we just made up.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:35 am    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

vwuberalles wrote:
Braukuche wrote:
It's exactly what they do with those fiberglass speedsters and as far as I know those are legal in most states.


Are you talking about those Beetle-based kit cars? Are they registered as a Porsche Speedster, or does the title call it whatever year Beetle they got the donor pan from?


They are registered as beetles in California. Registration goes with the pan, the state doesn't care what's on top of it.
There is a lot of discussion amongst the geriatric set of Porsche owners about the future of these cars, but it's much ado about nothing. There has been a correction but mostly because so many hack so called restorers where buying shitty cars, doing fast shitty work on them and then trying to fast flip them for big money. The uneducated people with big money simply have gotten wise to the ruse and have become more selective. Nice cars still go for nice money, turds less so.
There is also a growing number of bus guys getting into early Porsches who still have color in their hair. I know of two bus guys locally who have done it happening upon good Deals.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

vwuberalles wrote:
Braukuche wrote:
It's exactly what they do with those fiberglass speedsters and as far as I know those are legal in most states.


Are you talking about those Beetle-based kit cars? Are they registered as a Porsche Speedster, or does the title call it whatever year Beetle they got the donor pan from?


They are registered as beetles in California. Registration goes with the pan, the state doesn't care what's on top of it.
There is a lot of discussion amongst the geriatric set of Porsche owners about the future of these cars, but it's much ado about nothing. There has been a correction but mostly because so many hack so called restorers where buying shitty cars, doing fast shitty work on them and then trying to fast flip them for big money. The uneducated people with big money simply have gotten wise to the ruse and have become more selective. Nice cars still go for nice money, turds less so.
There is also a growing number of bus guys getting into early Porsches who still have color in their hair. I know of two bus guys locally who have done it happening upon good Deals.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

vwuberalles wrote:
So how would this be registered? I mean, they make brand new "1969" Camaro complete shell reproductions so there must be a way. And does the title on those say 69, or is it registered as whatever year some dude orders it and puts it together in his garage?


Apparently sold and registered as a replica based on info here for 65 Mustang repops: https://revologycars.com/faq/

I don't think this will hit Gerson hard. 1) Gerson panels are used in official restorations by VW 2) REPUTATION 3) they're funky green, and 4):



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: New production Split-Bus body seen at MAM Funfest this weekend Reply with quote

Braukuche wrote:


Are you talking about those Beetle-based kit cars? Are they registered as a Porsche Speedster, or does the title call it whatever year Beetle they got the donor pan from?

They are registered as beetles in California. Registration goes with the pan, the state doesn't care what's on top of it..


Maybe that's how Cal handles it, but not all states including Ohio. If you change the body you better get an inspection and re-title the car. Some cops will let you slide with a dune buggy/kit car and a Beetle title/plate but some will tow you away. It's your luck who pulls you over. If it's a kit car, it's NOT a Beetle.
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