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Question for you 68 and up guys...Seat Belt Project Complete
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Denny B
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:59 am    Post subject: Question for you 68 and up guys...Seat Belt Project Complete Reply with quote

I have a '65 Beetle. I am installing retractable 3 point seat belts in it. I am going to weld a "weld nut" in the B pillar. I understand that a '68 and up has the seatbelt nut towards the bottom of the B pillar. Could someone advise me what the distance is between the center of the seatbelt hole and the heater channel is?

Thanks,
Denny
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I wish I knew as much today as I did when I was 18........

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Last edited by Denny B on Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ashman40
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:33 am    Post subject: Re: Question for you 68 and up guys... Reply with quote

You might want to check if there isn't already a caged nut already there. While seat belts were not mandated (by US DOT) until 1967, many manufacturers (including VW) were including the option for installing seat belts years earlier. I would imagine that in 1965 these would have been lap belts only, the threaded holes may be there under the headliner material.

Here's a thread on the topic:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=110301
From the thread you can see there were seat belts in pre-'67 Beetles from the dealer. Whether they were from the factory is not clear.

Here is a pic from a '67 to show where the lower mounting point on the B-pillar is located:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



FYI, the seat belt bolt/nut are NOT metric. Seat belt standards came from the US so the bolt/nuts for ALL cars are almost always 7/16"-20 thread size/pitch.
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Denny B
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: Question for you 68 and up guys... Reply with quote

ashman40 wrote:
You might want to check if there isn't already a caged nut already there. While seat belts were not mandated (by US DOT) until 1967, many manufacturers (including VW) were including the option for installing seat belts years earlier. I would imagine that in 1965 these would have been lap belts only, the threaded holes may be there under the headliner material.

Here's a thread on the topic:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=110301
From the thread you can see there were seat belts in pre-'67 Beetles from the dealer. Whether they were from the factory is not clear.

Here is a pic from a '67 to show where the lower mounting point on the B-pillar is located:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



FYI, the seat belt bolt/nut are NOT metric. Seat belt standards came from the US so the bolt/nuts for ALL cars are almost always 7/16"-20 thread size/pitch.


Thanks for the reply.

I haven't looked under the material yet to see if there is already a captive nut (it sure would be nice if there is) but, there is a threaded 7/16-20 welded nut in the floor behind the seat. The weld nut that I plan on installing is a 7/16-20. It is actually a nut welded to a heavy duty 2" washer which would be fitted through a hole a little larger than the nut and then the washer will be puddle/spot welded to the B pillar.

I'm going to go check to see if there is already a captive nut in the B pillar but I've got a feeling that I'm not going to be that lucky. Shocked

I'll let you know what I find.
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I wish I knew as much today as I did when I was 18........

"I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member" (Groucho Marx)

"Life is like a roll of toilet paper.....the more you pull off the faster it goes" (unknown)

“Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” (John Wayne)

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” – Adm Grace
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Denny B
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Question for you 68 and up guys... Reply with quote

Okay...no seatbelt holes in my '65 (in the B pillar anyway...only the floor). I will proceed with my "welding venture" and I will post photos when complete.
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I wish I knew as much today as I did when I was 18........

"I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member" (Groucho Marx)

"Life is like a roll of toilet paper.....the more you pull off the faster it goes" (unknown)

“Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” (John Wayne)

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” – Adm Grace
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Rome
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Question for you 68 and up guys... Reply with quote

Before you start welding, consider this approach. Sturdy bracket on the retractor fits into the existing factory floor belt bolt hole. It places the retractor more in the way of rear seat passengers' feet, but if you will mostly be driving alone or with just a front seat passenger, it could simplify your work alot.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Your '65 would have its upper belt hole midway up the door post, per this location on a '64. You remove the large plastic plug, and install an adapter plug that has the domestic bolt thread in the center.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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viiking
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Question for you 68 and up guys... Reply with quote

The distance from the centre of the bottom seat belt hole to the where the B pillar intersects with the top of the heater channel on my '68 is 40mm.
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Denny B
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Question for you 68 and up guys... Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies.
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I wish I knew as much today as I did when I was 18........

"I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member" (Groucho Marx)

"Life is like a roll of toilet paper.....the more you pull off the faster it goes" (unknown)

“Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” (John Wayne)

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” – Adm Grace
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viiking
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:27 am    Post subject: Re: Question for you 68 and up guys... Reply with quote

Yes, but did you sort it?
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1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3
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Denny B
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: Question for you 68 and up guys... Reply with quote

viiking wrote:
Yes, but did you sort it?


I'm working on it. I will report back with photos after the weekend. Very Happy
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I wish I knew as much today as I did when I was 18........

"I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member" (Groucho Marx)

"Life is like a roll of toilet paper.....the more you pull off the faster it goes" (unknown)

“Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” (John Wayne)

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” – Adm Grace
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Denny B
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Question for you 68 and up guys...Seat Belt Project Complete Reply with quote

Okay...here is my report. I have no idea how many photos I can put in one post...but here goes.

By the way....this is a '65 Beetle...I came to the 68 and up forum to request a measurement and I said I would report back to you guys when I finish. Thanks for your help and suggestions...HAPPY FATHER"S DAY!

First, I wanted my seat belts as much out of the way as possible therefore I really didn't want to use the supplied "threaded seat belt hole" in the floor that's between the front and back seats on a '65. So, I used viiking's measurement of 40mm above the heater channel and dug in!

First, I welded 7/16-20 nuts to 2" OD, thick washers (please give me a break on my welding skills...I am a novice welder and I'm 73 years old!) Very Happy and drilled holes around the nut for puddle/spot welding.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




Then I measured 40mm above the heater channel and used a 1 1/8" hole saw and cut the holes.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Checked for fit.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Secured with one Cleco and got ready to weld.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This was first time I tried puddle/spot welding. Worked out very good. After welding I took a chisel and hammer to both sides and nothing moved! Shocked

Passenger side...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Driver's side before cleaning up with wire wheel...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Finished product....


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
I wish I knew as much today as I did when I was 18........

"I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member" (Groucho Marx)

"Life is like a roll of toilet paper.....the more you pull off the faster it goes" (unknown)

“Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” (John Wayne)

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” – Adm Grace


Last edited by Denny B on Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Question for you 68 and up guys...Seat Belt Project Complete Reply with quote

They look great!

I think I have the same belts, only in tan. The female receptacles were a bit weird. Where they attach to the tunnel, mine don’t sit flat. If I turn them to sit flat, then the receptacle part is backwards. I finally decided that it made no difference if they sat flat on the tunnel, so I went with what made the receptacles line up on the proper side.

Other than that, they work fine.

Tim
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jeremy.g
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Question for you 68 and up guys...Seat Belt Project Complete Reply with quote

That looks excellent!
Solid too.

Nice job.


-Jeremy
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Denny B
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Question for you 68 and up guys...Seat Belt Project Complete Reply with quote

Tim Donahoe wrote:
They look great!

I think I have the same belts, only in tan. The female receptacles were a bit weird. Where they attach to the tunnel, mine don’t sit flat. If I turn them to sit flat, then the receptacle part is backwards. I finally decided that it made no difference if they sat flat on the tunnel, so I went with what made the receptacles line up on the proper side.

Other than that, they work fine.

Tim


Yes, they are attached to the tunnel where the original seatbelt bolts go.
_________________
I wish I knew as much today as I did when I was 18........

"I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member" (Groucho Marx)

"Life is like a roll of toilet paper.....the more you pull off the faster it goes" (unknown)

“Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” (John Wayne)

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” – Adm Grace
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Denny B
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Question for you 68 and up guys...Seat Belt Project Complete Reply with quote

jeremy.g wrote:
That looks excellent!
Solid too.

Nice job.


-Jeremy


Thanks! Very Happy
_________________
I wish I knew as much today as I did when I was 18........

"I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member" (Groucho Marx)

"Life is like a roll of toilet paper.....the more you pull off the faster it goes" (unknown)

“Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” (John Wayne)

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” – Adm Grace
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