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jrlima Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018 Posts: 66 Location: Oeiras
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:17 am Post subject: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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Hi,
After solving my distributer problem with the help of you guys, and like I said in the other topic, I want to do a valve adjustment.
I popped off the cap on cylinders 1 / 2 and of course I wasn't waiting to see a nice and clean area around the valves like I see in the videos on youtube.
This is the first time I'm doing this, owning the car five years now, so I was expenting some awful stuff inside.
Everything is full of dirty oil. I don't know what should I do. Should I just clean that up? It just looks BAD. I hope this doesn't mean DOOM for my car!!
I'm afraid of what you guys are going to say. This is why I didn't want to open those caps. What I can't see doesn't scare me!
Here's is a picture of it so you guys can see.
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Relyt Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2012 Posts: 1008 Location: WA
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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Looks fine to me, you can wipe it off if you want. I wouldn’t recommend any solvents due to the concern of getting them into the engine oil or removing the lubrication on the rockers, valve stems, and push rods.
Clean out the covers and scrub the gasket surface. Put new gaskets on with some light oil on both sides or use some aviation gasket maker on the cover side. _________________ 69 Beetle - Daily driver
1600 SP (unknown history)
30 PICT 1 w/power circuit (Volkzbitz)
205T (Bill) |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9665 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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I have seen worse.
How many Km are you driving the car per year?
It would be a good idea to check the rocker adjustment at least every 3000 Km.
Regarding the cover gasket. For now, just use the aviation sealant as recommended above. It will help the gasket stay in place when reinstalling the valve covers. Only on the side where the gasket and the valve cover touch.
If you do both sides of the gasket. The gasket will stick to the head and need to be scraped off at the next valve adjustment.
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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jrlima Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018 Posts: 66 Location: Oeiras
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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67rustavenger wrote: |
I have seen worse.
How many Km are you driving the car per year?
It would be a good idea to check the rocker adjustment at least every 3000 Km.
Regarding the cover gasket. For now, just use the aviation sealant as recommended above. It will help the gasket stay in place when reinstalling the valve covers. Only on the side where the gasket and the valve cover touch.
If you do both sides of the gasket. The gasket will stick to the head and need to be scraped off at the next valve adjustment.
Good Luck. |
I've made about 7000km since I have the car (about 5 years).
As for the sealant, I don't know what that is. I'm from Portugal, not sure what to look for. I won't find "aviation sealant" that's for sure.
Update 1:
Alright, valves for cylinder #1, and the intake valve for cylinder #2 seem to be fine. I'm measuring at 0.15. Just a little drag on the feeler gauge.
The exhaust on cylinder #2 needs a bit adjustment. I'm having some trouble untying the nut. Afraid to break something... Come back to the computer to check exactly the direction I need to turn the nut.
Update 2:
No way I can untie the nut or the screw! It won't move. And I'm not certain of what I can do. Can I just untie the screw? Can I just untie the nut? Do I have to hold the screw to untie the nut?
Why do this things always look simpler then they are!?! |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9665 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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The adjuster nuts come off counter clockwise. Use the box end of a 13mm spanner to loosen them.
You're not gonna break anything in there loosening the nuts. You're likely to get a cut finger when you slip with the wrench (spanner).
I suggest that you read this article before attempting the valve adjustment.
http://www.vw-resource.com/valveadj.html
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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jrlima Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018 Posts: 66 Location: Oeiras
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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67rustavenger wrote: |
The adjuster nuts come off counter clockwise. Use the box end of a 13mm spanner to loosen them.
You're not gonna break anything in there loosening the nuts. You're likely to get a cut finger when you slip with the wrench (spanner).
I suggest that you read this article before attempting the valve adjustment.
http://www.vw-resource.com/valveadj.html
Good Luck. |
The 13 mm wrench seems to be a bit bigger. It seems I need a 12,5mm wrench!
I don't want to tear the nut.
Confirm me just one thing. If I understand the system, I can turn the nut or the bolt counterclockise tu untie, right? If I turn the bolt, the nut will come along. If I untie the nut, the bolt will follow, right? |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12454
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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Correct in a perfect world. Righty tightly lefty loosy. Those rockers look gummed up but if you just change oil a few times everything should be fine. Oh you could break the rockers all down and clean things up, I even started a thread on that with pics once upon a time. There are some small oiling holes which can get clogged up up but again just use a good detergent oil. Use an 6 point socket to break em loose, this will minimize any slippage or round off of the flats on the nut. happy motoring |
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jrlima Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018 Posts: 66 Location: Oeiras
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
Oh you could break the rockers all down and clean things up, I even started a thread on that with pics once upon a time. |
This is interesting.
I just have to remove this nuts? There will be no problems with the push rods? Any gaskets, o-rings, or anything?
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Relyt Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2012 Posts: 1008 Location: WA
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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Yep, just remove those 2 nuts and you can pull the whole thing off. The only thing is to make sure the push rods are lined up when you put it back on. _________________ 69 Beetle - Daily driver
1600 SP (unknown history)
30 PICT 1 w/power circuit (Volkzbitz)
205T (Bill) |
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jrlima Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018 Posts: 66 Location: Oeiras
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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Relyt wrote: |
Yep, just remove those 2 nuts and you can pull the whole thing off. The only thing is to make sure the push rods are lined up when you put it back on. |
Ok. That was easy. I've removed the rocker arm and now I was able to untie the nuts!
Question: what can I use to clean the parts? Can I simply use engine oil to soften the dry oil and rub until it comes off? |
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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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I like wd-40 as a cleaning agent. I buy it by the gallon jug. But really any oil will work. Mineral spirits, kerosene, diesel, etc. work well also. Just use caution if using something flammable. |
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jrlima Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018 Posts: 66 Location: Oeiras
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Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:12 am Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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I decided against cleaning the rocker arm. To clean it really well, I would have to tear it apart piece by piece and that is just a bad idea. Decided just to pass a cloth on it.
I've put it back in the valve box (used a torque wrench at 18lbs), and adjusted the valves.
I've removed the old gasket from the cover (it was hard as rock), did a general cleaning and put a new gasket on it (cork gasket) (I'm not saying just yet of what I DIDN'T do, because I'm ashamed of saying it).
I haven't touch cylinders #3 and #4. I'll do those when I'm done with #1 and #2.
I've closed the valve box, and turn on the car. Seems fine. I went for a ride for a few miles and it seems just fine.
When I got back to the garage, take a guess. A lot of oil leaking from the bottom of the cover! I wonder why I was already expecting this?
Now I'll have to say what I didn't do: I haven't use any gasket sealant!!
I don't know why, but I suspect that I will never seal that thing properly... Why do cars have oil?!?! |
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Relyt Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2012 Posts: 1008 Location: WA
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Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:01 am Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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A lot of people put the valve cover gaskets in dry. Go back and make sure it didn’t shift out of place while clamping the cover down, and make sure the cover is on properly, they sometimes like to shift off center when you snap the bail on. _________________ 69 Beetle - Daily driver
1600 SP (unknown history)
30 PICT 1 w/power circuit (Volkzbitz)
205T (Bill) |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15975 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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Three common causes of oil leaking from the valve covers:
1) The gasket slipped off the lip of the cover:
This is why some form of gasket prep/adhesive should be used to "glue" the gasket to the cover. This glue does not need to form an oil tight seal, the cork gasket will do this. The prep/adhesive hold the gasket in place until the spring tension can compress it.
2) The spring bales are weak. These get loose over time. Bending the ends of the bales will increase the tension in the wires. If the bales easily slip over the covers they will not provide the needed pressure to seal the gaskets.
3) The covers were not seated flat across the lip on the heads. The gaskets need to sit flat on the perimeter of the lip to form a seal all around. I like to wiggle the cover just before I lift the bale to make sure the metal part of the cover is not resting on the lip of the head.
4) Old cracked gasket. _________________ AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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I never use sealant. I just use some grease on the cork gasket. Just use my finger and push the grease on both sides, very thin. Just getting the gasket "wet". Works good for me. But everyone has their favorite way of doing valve gaskets.
Engines have oil so metal parts don't touch at high speeds and weld themselves together.
Tearing down a valve assembly is very easy. Just pay attention to how the clips go. Don't be afraid of working on your car, you need to learn. Get a book and follow the instructions, work slow, and ask questions. |
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jrlima Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018 Posts: 66 Location: Oeiras
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Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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ashman40 wrote: |
Three common causes of oil leaking from the valve covers:
1) The gasket slipped off the lip of the cover:
This is why some form of gasket prep/adhesive should be used to "glue" the gasket to the cover. This glue does not need to form an oil tight seal, the cork gasket will do this. The prep/adhesive hold the gasket in place until the spring tension can compress it.
2) The spring bales are weak. These get loose over time. Bending the ends of the bales will increase the tension in the wires. If the bales easily slip over the covers they will not provide the needed pressure to seal the gaskets.
3) The covers were not seated flat across the lip on the heads. The gaskets need to sit flat on the perimeter of the lip to form a seal all around. I like to wiggle the cover just before I lift the bale to make sure the metal part of the cover is not resting on the lip of the head.
4) Old cracked gasket. |
I opened the box again. The gasket seemed to be fitting fine. When I removed the cap, the gasket was stucking to the case, and I seemed fitting ok.
Question:
Are this cork gaskets the same on both sides? I'm asking these because my second gasket has a curve on one side. I don't know about the other, It doesn´t seem to have this curve, but maybe it lost it due to the compression.
Update: I checked the gasket, the case, the cap, try it again with a bit more careful when closing the cap. I started the car, seemed fine. But when it got warm, it started leaking a bit oil from the bottom left side. Tried the other gasket (seems to be too thick) and it was worse.
I think I'm going to get new gaskets and try again. Mine are dark, not much cork-like color in them. I've read somewhere that some gaskets have a mixture with cork and rubber and are not that good.
I'll try again in a few days then I will let you guys know. Thanks! |
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jrlima Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018 Posts: 66 Location: Oeiras
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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Alright.
I got new gaskets, some sealant and tried again.
The new gaskets seemed to be better then the other ones, although a bit bigger then the cover. I trimmed it a little bit, used just a small string of sealant and only on the bottom and went for a ride. No traces of oil leaking!!
Can't believe it sealed.
And now, for the other side!!
Last edited by jrlima on Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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joey1320 Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2006 Posts: 2325 Location: Cleveland, OH
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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jrlima wrote: |
All right.
I got new gaskets, some sealant and tried again.
The new gaskets seemed to be better then the other ones, although a bit bigger then the cover. I trimmed it a little bit, used just a small string of sealant and only on the bottom and went for a ride. No traces of oil leaking!!
Can't believe it sealed.
And now, for the other side!! |
Right on dude _________________ **1971 Super Project
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 |
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jrlima Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018 Posts: 66 Location: Oeiras
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Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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Today I started working on the cylinders 3 and 4.
There's a little bit of trouble there.
There was a lot of dry oil on the bottom of the cover in the outside, indicating that it leaked somewhere in time. The cover is just a big mess.
I opened the case and I notice a broken ring laying inside. One of the rings from the rocket arm broke and there is some looseness. I think it is one of those spring-rings (don't know the name).
I'll have to replace the ring. This may take a while because I don't know if I can get it in my local parts shop. Maybe I'll have to order it.
Here's a picture.
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15975 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment-I'm sorry but I need advice |
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You are gonna need to disassemble your rocker arms. Keep note of the number of shims on either side of each rocker arm. The shims are both washers (minimizing friction between stationary and moving parts) and spacers for aligning the rocker arm tip with the head of the valve. The adjusters in the rocker arms DO NOT sit centered with the valve heads. They need to be slightly offset from center so they cause the valves to rotate as they open. This encourages even wear over the valve face/seating area. See these pics:
_________________ AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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