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1972 with 1600 cc engine. I need some specialists!!!
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ben_dubai
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:36 pm    Post subject: 1972 with 1600 cc engine. I need some specialists!!! Reply with quote

Hello Baywindow people,

Ok I am getting lost. I bought a 1972 Baywindow Bus (US/Canada Version as far as I know) 2 years back. I good a good deal on it but I knew it needs some work. No I am doing a full restoration and struggle with several things. Please help me if you have the answers

1. VIN number
The Vin is 2222057854. I checked several VIN sites also here on Samba but is seems there is no Bus with 2222 starting. Any idea?

2. Engine number
The number is U5064710. What I could fine out is that its a US/Canada M239 Fuel Injection. Is this the original engine to this Bus.

3. Engine bay
Here is my biggest problem. As mentioned the Bus will be restored and it seems like some wannabe mechanic somehow put that engine in the Bus. I post some pictures here and always put my question below.

3.1 Engine Cover Sheet towards Bus body
In the Picture below you see the blue marked area. This sheet is self made and just wrong. Also you can see a massive gap between engine and the sheet. I looked the internet up and down and found the following item (please check link). Is this the part I need?
https://eu.vwheritage.com/211119598-engine-tinware-kit-front-rear-1600cc-vw-spare

3.2. Engine mounts
Ok looking underneath the Bus I found these ridiculous engine mounts (see red arrow). I mean there is no way VW made it like this??? Please can anybody advise or send me a pic of how it should look like.

I am really looking forward towards you support and hope you can enlighten me with some info on this Bus.

Thanks Ben

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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 with 1600 cc engine. I need some specialists!!! Reply with quote

it appears your bus originally had a 1972 type 4 motor in it. The mounts do look home made but probably work fine. You will never restore that bus to original without replacing the motor with an original one but you can make it look nice and enjoy it with that engine.

222 is a beginning prefix for a 1972 bus (7 or 9 passenger).

From type 2.com:

Quote:
The Chassis number (1970-1979)

Busses of model years 1970 until 1979 have a chassis number that consists of 10 digits.

The first two of them are not displayed on the option plate, but you can find them on your registration papers and in the back near the engine. These two numbers indicate the model:

21 Van (no windows in cargo compartment)
22 Microbus
23 Kombi (windows in cargo compartment)
24 Microbus Deluxe
26 Pick-up
27 Ambulance

The third digit (the first on the options plate) stands for the model year. For example "7" stands for 1977. The model year runs from August of the previous year until July in the actual year. So Model year 1977 started in August 1976 and ended in July 1977.

The fourth digit (the second on the options plate) is a "2" on all busses. I have no idea why.

The number that remains is a serial number.

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I am not telling you what to, or what not to do. When a suggestion is offered, it is wishing you the best, & is based on my experiences as a mechanic, automotive machinist, & from racing in the era your bus came to life.
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TomWesty
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 with 1600 cc engine. I need some specialists!!! Reply with quote

That motor mount setup looks like it should work okay. The tinware from vwheritage looks correct to me, but I would get a second opinion from a European bus owner as well.
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ben_dubai
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 with 1600 cc engine. I need some specialists!!! Reply with quote

Hello SKKent,

Thanks for you reply. So you mean there is no original sheet metal I could buy in order to fit that engine properly in? So basically I need to custom make the sheet to close the gap to engine etc?
But I thought also the 1972 came with a 1600 engine for a while or is my engine just a different 1600 not fitting the Bus?
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alman72
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:01 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 with 1600 cc engine. I need some specialists!!! Reply with quote

ben_dubai wrote:
Hello SKKent,

Thanks for you reply. So you mean there is no original sheet metal I could buy in order to fit that engine properly in? So basically I need to custom make the sheet to close the gap to engine etc?
But I thought also the 1972 came with a 1600 engine for a while or is my engine just a different 1600 not fitting the Bus?


euro spec did, US spec did not. not sure if the engine bays were EXACTLY the same or not.
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kreemoweet
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:53 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 with 1600 cc engine. I need some specialists!!! Reply with quote

ben_dubai wrote:
So you mean there is no original sheet metal I could buy in order to fit that engine properly in?


The tinware from VW Heritage you linked to is an accurate copy of the original tin VW put in 72-up busses with the 1600 engine.
You will also need the rubber tin-to-body seal:

https://eu.vwheritage.com/411813225-seal-for-the-engine-bay-tinware-to-body-vw-spare
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 with 1600 cc engine. I need some specialists!!! Reply with quote

Read this thread

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=483408&highlight=installing+type
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ben_dubai
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 with 1600 cc engine. I need some specialists!!! Reply with quote

Thank you so much everybody. This was soooooo helpful and all my open questions are answered. Its really great to have your support and knowledge. Will post a pic once finished Smile

Regards
Ben
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bus guy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 with 1600 cc engine. I need some specialists!!! Reply with quote

In Europe we got the upright engine through 79. That tinware is the stuff you need - fortunately it is now being reproduced, as it used to be unobtainable. Your bus has the 68-71 rear support bar - the 72-79 Euro has a different bar and mounts that bolt to the frame - I probably have some mount brackets and bar somewhere but shipping would be steep from the UK. If you need any advice about parts etc feel free to DM me.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 with 1600 cc engine. I need some specialists!!! Reply with quote

I think your engine mounts are going to give problems. A second bolt through the frame rail lower down would help stabilize the mount, but the mount is still going to be flimsy and subject to bending and/or fatigue failure.
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TomWesty
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 with 1600 cc engine. I need some specialists!!! Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
I think your engine mounts are going to give problems. A second bolt through the frame rail lower down would help stabilize the mount, but the mount is still going to be flimsy and subject to bending and/or fatigue failure.
It’s also possible you could have issues in the vertical axis with the tin lining up since the mounts are not stock.
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bus guy
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 with 1600 cc engine. I need some specialists!!! Reply with quote

bus guy wrote:
In Europe we got the upright engine through 79. That tinware is the stuff you need - fortunately it is now being reproduced, as it used to be unobtainable. Your bus has the 68-71 rear support bar - the 72-79 Euro has a different bar and mounts that bolt to the frame - I probably have some mount brackets and bar somewhere but shipping would be steep from the UK. If you need any advice about parts etc feel free to DM me.


Here are the above mount brackets and support bar - as fitted to my ‘72 Swedish Single Cab - supplied new with the upright type 1 1600 engine. The rubber mounts are still available new.

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