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db69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013 Posts: 419 Location: east TN
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:37 am Post subject: New engine break in questions |
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I’m trying to finish up my new 2332 and all I like finishing is the heads my plan is either super pros or mini wedge ports. But anyway my question is this I have fk8 cam and 1.4 rockers and most likely dual springs the instructions from Engle say remove inner springs and break in at 2000 rpms for 20 minutes. Should I have the heads shipped without the inner springs for break in then try to muscle them in with the motor in the car or remove motor to reinstall? Or what? This may sound stupid but would it be possible to attach an electric motor to the crank and break in the cam before installing the motor? How do you guys get the springs on and off during break in?
Last edited by db69 on Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Vanillagurilla Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017 Posts: 1061 Location: California
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:41 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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Pilling the heads is the easiest way to change springs and valve spring compressors are fairly inexpensive. There are other ways to pull the springs but there more for semi emergency situations or if you have to replace 1 broken spring. I have a baja so pulling the heads isnt a big deal lol. |
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db69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013 Posts: 419 Location: east TN
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:46 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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I guess I should’ve mentioned it’s going in a 69 beetle so pulling the heads would require removing the engine. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12633 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:28 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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Breaking in the cam with an electric motor is entirely possible but I do not believe you would do the pistons and cylinders any favors as they would not be up to proper running temperature. It seems to me that it would be less trouble to rig up to do the break-in running the engine on the shop floor than setting up to drive the engine with an electric motor. That would have to be done with the engine out too. |
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db69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013 Posts: 419 Location: east TN
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:18 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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So does everyone running dual springs remove the inner springs, install the heads, install tin, install engine, break it in , remove engine, remove all the tin , remove the heads, reinstall springs, reinstall heads, reinstall tin then reinstall engine? Seams like a helluva lot of work. Surely someone has found an easier route? I’m not lazy but damn somebody help me out here! |
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within.1 Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2017 Posts: 179 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:37 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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I broke in quite a few engines with the dual springs on, i use good quality break in oil and try to start the engine quickly and dont run it over 2,000 rpm for 20 mins |
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db69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013 Posts: 419 Location: east TN
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:44 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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Now that sounds much better. Did you have any cam failures? |
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within.1 Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2017 Posts: 179 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:59 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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No i did not,but i cant say if anyone else wont |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9666 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:13 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=380203
I did mine on the garage floor out of the car.
I have a cut bellhousing and attach a starter to it. Connect the fuel lines and a very simple wiring system.
I just run off a well charged battery for breakin and after tuning. Again this is all done with the engine out of the car.
FWIW, I broke mine in with the dual springs in place.
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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mcmscott Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010 Posts: 4848 Location: sanger ca
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:07 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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I have never changed anything on an engine from brake in to final running in the car. Same valve springs are used from the time the engine is built to the time it is gone. _________________ There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15280 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:43 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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I run them with the dual springs in for break-in. They make a tool to change the springs while the engine is in the car.
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Heavy-Duty-Valve-Spri...ol-buy.htm
ACN will also rent you the tool. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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oldschool5er Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2007 Posts: 804 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:20 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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I break mine in on the stand or on a Dyno. I do not remove the inner spring unless it is a cam that I am using that has what I consider a non standard profile that your average builder won't be using. I use standard Engle stuff on most builds keeping at or near .550 total Lift. I use Dino 30w non detergent break in oil with high zinc. In my case I have never had a flat cam come back so I stick with what works for me. _________________ HRE in Westerville,Ohio
Full machine shop with all types of CNC. Rapid prototyping available, CNC Plasma cutting, 3D printing and Laser engraving. |
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db69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013 Posts: 419 Location: east TN
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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Thanks for all the feedback I think I will break it in with the springs in place. |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15280 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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db69 wrote: |
Thanks for all the feedback I think I will break it in with the springs in place. |
Follow the instructions that came with an Engle cam 1500-1800 RPM for 20-30 minutes. After you run the engine it is also very important to allow the engine to completely cool 10-12 hours to "normalize". Adjust valves and change the oil/filter then you are ready to drive it. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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arizonabuckeye Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2013 Posts: 544 Location: SLC
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Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:44 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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Whats a target idle RPM for a build like this? |
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db69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013 Posts: 419 Location: east TN
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Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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My first “big motor” but cam is supposed to pull to 6500rpm. I guess we will see! |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15280 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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arizonabuckeye wrote: |
Whats a target idle RPM for a build like this? |
I set engines with single valve springs 750-800. Dual valve springs needs more oiling and I set the idle around 900-950 _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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db69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013 Posts: 419 Location: east TN
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Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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arizonabuckeye wrote: |
Whats a target idle RPM for a build like this? |
Sorry didn’t see “idle” 6500 would be a little loud at idle! |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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You haven't even told us what cam you are using yet. _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
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db69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013 Posts: 419 Location: east TN
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Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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db69 wrote: |
I’m trying to finish up my new 2332 and all I like finishing is the heads my plan is either super pros or mini wedge ports. But anyway my question is this I have fk8 cam and 1.4 rockers and most likely dual springs the instructions from Engle say remove inner springs and break in at 2000 rpms for 20 minutes. Should I have the heads shipped without the inner springs for break in then try to muscle them in with the motor in the car or remove motor to reinstall? Or what? This may sound stupid but would it be possible to attach an electric motor to the crank and break in the cam before installing the motor? How do you guys get the springs on and off during break in? |
Fk8 |
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