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Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ?
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:39 am    Post subject: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

Hey all!

I just saved a Tiico set up from a Vanagon in which I transplanted a Subaru engine for a guy. The poor thing had more oil than coolant in its circuit and was burning a LOT of oil.

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I plan on saving it for my daily driver or my GF`s, either with a diesel bellhousing or buying a flexplate for the automatic transmission. I like keeping things stock looking in this case.

A back burner project that has been keeping me up at night with ideas spinning in my head Smile



It is a Brazilian block, UBL engine code found nowhere, I believe it must be a 2.0L.

The counterflow head part number is 037 103 373.2. from VW Brazil.

Looking at pics online, it`s the same as a 1.8L 037 103 373 A head. I could not find a picture of the Brazilian head with the injector openings actually opened in the head, but they are cast. Maybe Tiico machined these heads to make them like the 1.8L counterflow heads?





Anyway, I now have a box full of Tiico odd parts like the welded brackets since a few years ago I saved all the peripherals from a guy who was sending his van to the junkyard. I prolly won`t use them as I noticed the belts are not even lined up properly on the last engine I ended up with.



Yesterday I found a Jetta MK3. I prefer the serpentine belt set up. I read a great deal online before posting here, and I had read the A3 serpentine belt set up was a great solution. Oh man, I thought everybody mentioned A3 and A2 for the injectors as Audi models. What a waste of time.... I dunno why this confusing appellation. Anyway, I went on ETKA and pulled the part numbers I needed to look at pics online to find a set up.

Turns out there`s an abandoned one in the woods next to me, so yesterday I went and took these parts off.
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So this car has an ABA engine, its missing a few bits but nothing crazy.

I`m thinking since I have a B letter ECU and a short connecting rod block ( I think), I would like to use the ABA complete EFI, the ABA short block and the counter flow cylinder head; I do not want the cross flow head bc of the intake manifold interference at 50* and for aesthetical reasons/ servicing.

I do have have the later engine carrier bar style, so the engine with VW aluminum engine mounts should sit more rearwards and clear the driver side wall since the ABA block is taller.



It should run smoother from the longer rods from what I read but I have a couple question still:



****Can I actually run the ABA EFI set up in this configuration? Can I drop the ABA injectors in the counterflow head? If not, which injector do I need or what modification is needed?

****Will the ABA throttle body fit the Tiico modified intake manifold? If not, what intake manifold could I buy instead of modifying mine?

**** I will probably use the T3 Turbo diesel (JX) muffler in order to use all stock parts and figure out the down pipe fabrication on the spot.

**** Will the aluminum engine mount fit the passenger side on the ABA block? I know it doesn`t on longitudinal Audi/Passat diesel engines.



I think that`s it, unless I forgot something.



Thank you for your help !!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:50 am    Post subject: Re: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

That engine compartment looks very familiar. Small world

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Most likely the oil heat exchanger failed internally. If you check my gallery, I posted some pictures when I purchased that engine from a local samba member.

I did the install into a 90 camper that had no engine and I needed a way to move it around easily.

Had a heck of a time figuring out the wiring for that version of digifant. It was not delivered in the us market. The PO had cut the harness out of their van. Serpentine belt is definitely an improvement. I don't see a reason you can't mix and match any of those components. Someone went to a lot of trouble to modify the intake so that the chassis did not have to be massaged for it to fit. When the van left, I am pretty sure there was a copy of the wiring diagram I did eventually find and use. When it left it was on it's way to Ca.

On a side note. Bus Depot is using pictures of that camper on their web for their in house canvas. Small World
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

Alika,

First, thanks for the (steering/tie rod) boots!
Second, I love the VW I4 platform, it's so Lego like. My personal problem is diesel vs. gas in a syncro that gets used in far out places. My problem not yours!

If you plan to use the ABA block, the head should mate no problem, double check the oil/coolant passages. 20 yrs ago we'd throw the tall blocks in rabbits/sciroccos with out issues. Here though if memory serves me right, the ABA had a dished piston compared to a flatter piston in the 1.8/1.7 counter flow engines.

Management, either obd1 or 2 needs all the associted goods to run efficient or epa compliant. Some things are not necessary, like the SAI or the N80 etc. Does the throttle body have an electronic motor attached shrouded in black plastic? This is an OBD2 engine and this takes place of the idle air control valve. The crank position sensor and trigger wheel, O2 sensors, knock sensor, IAV/throttle body and mad are all that's needed and injectors.....I believe that the injectors are the same, just make sure it's snug when assembling.

Edit., The dished piston/head will result in the end compression! We were building poor man sports cars and needed to deck the counterflow head.


Last edited by dkoesyncro on Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

Here are the ABA pistons in my engine - dished, yes, if that helps any.

I've met Alika in person on Vancouver Island - super nice guy! Smile *Waves*

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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
That engine compartment looks very familiar. Small world

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Most likely the oil heat exchanger failed internally. If you check my gallery, I posted some pictures when I purchased that engine from a local samba member.

I did the install into a 90 camper that had no engine and I needed a way to move it around easily.

Had a heck of a time figuring out the wiring for that version of digifant. It was not delivered in the us market. The PO had cut the harness out of their van. Serpentine belt is definitely an improvement. I don't see a reason you can't mix and match any of those components. Someone went to a lot of trouble to modify the intake so that the chassis did not have to be massaged for it to fit. When the van left, I am pretty sure there was a copy of the wiring diagram I did eventually find and use. When it left it was on it's way to Ca.

On a side note. Bus Depot is using pictures of that camper on their web for their in house canvas. Small World


No way?? Small world indeed!!

That pic was before it got resprayed in Mexico. Not the best paint job and a lot of bondo to hide things.
What`s the story of this camper, do you know? It got a little accidented/bent in the front from what I can tell inspecting the body, doors don`t close well, no adjustment possible to correct it. They hid a lot of hatch rust with bondo on the hatch, it won`t shut well either.
Somebody tried to weld the transmission case and ended up with a massive burnt Mg/Al of a hole, got patched with JB-Weld. Molten beads went in the tranny and shot the R&P. The transmission is from an earlier 84 van, they had left the bracket for the early rubber clutch hose in place ,unused, which made me look at the production date.

I pressure tested the oil cooler, it`s not that. Also it was burning a lot of oil. Compressions are 120 Psi on cylinder #1, difficultly reaching 100 on #2, 128 on #3, 125 on #4.
I`d rather use the ABA block anyway and this ignition system is junk from what I read too. I don`t feel like redoing the wiring harness cleaner and spend the coin on all the upgraded E letter ECU and injectors from FAS.

Aloha Cool Cool

dkoesyncro wrote:
Alika,

First, thanks for the (steering/tie rod) boots! You`re welcome, I`m glad you`re pleased with them, that`s the goal VW Logo VW Logo Thanks for your interest in my Tiico project Very Happy
Second, I love the VW I4 platform, it's so Lego like. My personal problem is diesel vs. gas in a syncro that gets used in far out places. My problem not yours! That will be on a 2WD driving on a small island, good enough Laughing

If you plan to use the ABA block, the head should mate no problem, this I had read on forums and confirmed on Techtonics`s page, randomly found on Google, I dunno where it`s hidden on their site...
http://techtonicstuning.com/ABA_Engine_Swap.htm and use the gasket from the corresponding cylinder head to block the oil passage return hole.


double check the oil/coolant passages. 20 yrs ago we'd, throw the tall blocks in rabbits/sciroccos with out issues. Here though if memory serves me right, the ABA had a dished piston compared to a flatter piston in the 1.8/1.7 counter flow engines.

Management, either obd1 or 2 needs all the associated goods to run efficient or epa compliant. Some things are not necessary, like the SAI or the N80 etc. Does the throttle body have an electronic motor attached shrouded in black plastic? I think it does, it`s still on the car in the woods.... This is an OBD2 engine and this takes place of the idle air control valve. The crank position sensor and trigger wheel, O2 sensors, knock sensor, IAV/throttle body and mad are all that's needed and injectors.....I believe that the injectors are the same, just make sure it's snug when assembling. This is what I wanted to hear, yay!!!! Razz Razz

Edit., The dished piston/head will result in the end compression! We were building poor man sports cars and needed to deck the counterflow head. What do you mean? Should I swap the pistons too or better shave the head?


leecat wrote:
Here are the ABA pistons in my engine - dished, yes, if that helps any.
Thank you!!
I've met Alika in person on Vancouver Island - super nice guy! Smile *Waves* Hey man, nice to see you here Wink Send me your address in PM, I have lost your info for the stickers I promised you Cool Cool

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

I'm running an ABA with a counterflow AGG head/intake (same as the Tiico). I'm using OBD2 ABA engine management. I needed to drill and tap a hole in the manifold for the intake air temp sensor and extend a few wires. The ABA throttle body bolts onto the manifold without any issues. The ABA fuel injectors are longer, so there may be some clearance issues depending on the fuel rail. I'm using the AGG stainless steel fuel rail, and I had to put a dent in it to clear the throttle body. If I were to do it again, I'd probably just use the shorter injectors, since they came off a 2.0 the flow rate should be fine.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

We were decking for higher compression, just poor man power. This just means you have to run higher octane fuel.

I'd imagine the flow rate of either injectors are the same and I'm certain the injector harness would be the same if you have to interface the two.

Here's the basics, I have full schematics too if you need anything let me know.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

vwfreek61 wrote:
I'm running an ABA with a counterflow AGG head/intake (same as the Tiico). I'm using OBD2 ABA engine management. I needed to drill and tap a hole in the manifold for the intake air temp sensor and extend a few wires. The ABA throttle body bolts onto the manifold without any issues. The ABA fuel injectors are longer, so there may be some clearance issues depending on the fuel rail. I'm using the AGG stainless steel fuel rail, and I had to put a dent in it to clear the throttle body. If I were to do it again, I'd probably just use the shorter injectors, since they came off a 2.0 the flow rate should be fine.


Thanks for the info, much appreciated Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

dkoesyncro wrote:
We were decking for higher compression, just poor man power. This just means you have to run higher octane fuel.

I'd imagine the flow rate of either injectors are the same and I'm certain the injector harness would be the same if you have to interface the two.

Here's the basics, I have full schematics too if you need anything let me know.
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So nice of you, I will certainly hit you up if I need to, but this swap seems like a cake walk Cool
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:17 am    Post subject: Re: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

This thread seems like Deja Vu from the Yahoo group, lol ..

Sounds like you are well on your way.

... Interesting to know what you needed to change for clearance issues and decent compression ratio mating the 2 for knowledge.


There was a version of the TiiCo motor that from what I understand was a hotter cam that apparently put out 135 HP ( called an HO version ) It seems more like marketing hype but I wonder what you did end up with in the head ...


Here is what Jon had to say about the B code ECU ...


--They are a primitive "closed loop" system using a 4-wire 02 sensor with the data wire going to pin #38
---They were designed using the water boxer injector and a mild performance cam of 268 instead of a 264** Bosch never discussed this with Remtec or Peter B. ahead of time and as a result it took us here almost a year to figure out what was going on with this system and its peculiar glitches. The mild cam was not that big of a deal except at idle until the engines broke in… but the water boxer injector was! PeterB. asked them to use the A2 injector # 037 906 031AK that fits digifant golf's and jetta's in north America. They are more reasonably priced and have flow characteristics more consistent with the cylinder volume of an in-line engine. For whatever reason they didn't. They also forgot to check all the appropriate boxes while formatting to shut off erroneous codes such as "glow plug monitoring" etc., and as a result they throw more codes than the earlier systems!!
---These ecu's learn on their own and do not need to be adjusted at altitude
---Ignition timing on these is to be set @ 6 degrees BTDC using the proper basic setting procedure.
---In summary if you have ECU # RSU 906 258 B or C make sure you are using water boxer injectors…your system will run much better. And make sure the timing is set @ 6 BTDC. If you have this system and have already upgraded to the A2 fuel rail set-up…you'll need to update your ECU as well.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:

Had a heck of a time figuring out the wiring for that version of digifant.


.... The actual 'TiiCo' was a Motronic based collection of mayhem.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

Thanks guys!

I did read the above quote about injectors and ECU. That's the main reason I decided to steer clear of all of it with my Frankenstein assembly. Cheaper to maintain, and obtain parts, proven system.


Between the Tiico group and here I got complete answers to do a smooth swap. Apparently the TB will bolt straight up, that was my biggest concern with the injectors but all seems pretty much plug and play with minor adjustments.

I went yesterday looking at the abandoned Jetta, I will pull the entire engine today. Some tweaker was living in the woods next to it, so I promised him 50 bucks he asked for it rather than arguing about it.

I will prolly end up using the cam in the 1.8 head too.

The block had been repainted blue on the ABA. It looks like it was a clean car with a clean engine, maybe I'll be lucky with a rebuilt bottom end Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

Alright!!

I went to get the tweaker`s delight yesterday Cool Cool

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It went super easily , I showed, up nobody was there (yet) but the guy finally came ( dammit) and had parked his truck in the pathway and his battery died. I couldn`t jump start it with the vanagon, too weak...
Turns out there`s an abandoned property at the end of the pathway where I had to turn around, some shady squat.
The "owner" came down to hang out with us while trying to start the truck. Good thing I had picked up a pack of beer for the seller, so while the battery is charging, I`m just hanging out with these 2 folks. One is the caretaker of the property, trying to remove abandoned cars that somehow he brings in since his chickens got stolen. The owner is the heir of the gas stations Hele, he`s persecuted by Exxon-Mobil and hates Goldman-Sachs and all the satanist worshipping IRS folks. It was a delightful situation stuck in there, good thing I get along very easily with tweakers, I always find a subject to talk about, and lemme tell you something, they love talking, so if you listen and nodd, you`re good all day. Turns out this VW engine is the EXACT same as the Mazda pick up over there and and the Toyota back there too, swear to God.

Finally the GF of the "caretaker" stops by with snacks, her van`s battery turned upside down on the dead battery`s posts did the trick. Vrooometh we go.

I took a look at the engine harness, it`s in decent shape, a few cut wires I gotta figure out. The 2 catalytic converters are gone but I have a nice pig tail.


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This one is factory plugged

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This connector ripped next to the brake fluid level sensor, unknown


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This electronic thingy half broken, unknown


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New coil needed, it prolly quit working bc of it and the car ended up there....

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Crank sensor in white and knock sensor in blue are broken. Good thing they are color coded


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I`m not sure yet what this one is for, next to a ripped 4 wire connector. That`s not the coolant temperature sensors.

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The engine is actually in great shape, the keyway of the oil pump is mint. It looked like it had a fresh rebuild. Not sure if it got done right though....

Camshaft looks new


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One cylinder had light scraches on the spark plug area, and on the corresponding piston, nothing was in the cylinder. Like somebody scratched it with a screwdriver, but from inside. Weird.


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I will prolly take it apart and hone it, get new rings and call it good. That`s gonna be the beginning of the back burner project, don`t expect updates soon Embarassed
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I looked a little bit online, it looks like my project is basically a GTi 8V AGG engine ( AWG is another engine code apparently). Not sure about the EFi on these.

ABA Bosch injectors 0280150955 for info.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

With the injector part number, I found this good thread Cool Cool

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 Cool
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

marks on piston from someone trying to confirm TDC of #1 ? (timing belt job?)

Looks like an OBD2 harness so I really shouldn't do any WAG'ing here but 2 conductor plug with white-green wire could be for IAT sensor.

2 wires near brake fluid cap maybe for coolant level sensor?

Neil.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

http://www.a2resource.com/electrical/management/motronicvr6aba.html

This should help with ID'ing the wires.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

Vanagon Nut wrote:
marks on piston from someone trying to confirm TDC of #1 ? (timing belt job?)

Looks like an OBD2 harness so I really shouldn't do any WAG'ing here but 2 conductor plug with white-green wire could be for IAT sensor.

2 wires near brake fluid cap maybe for coolant level sensor?

Neil.


Hi Neil!

No, it`s not the IAT, it was still connected on the manifold Smile

Coolant level for the other one is a good guess, you`re probably right as the tank was there but dangling aside.
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Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

vwfreek61 wrote:
http://www.a2resource.com/electrical/management/motronicvr6aba.html

This should help with ID'ing the wires.


I couldn`t have asked for a better ressource, thank you so much for that Cool Cool
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Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

That broken three wire connector plug appears to be the speedo sensor on the trans.
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: Making a Frankenstein Tiico with ABA engine and EFI ? Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
That broken three wire connector plug appears to be the speedo sensor on the trans.


Thanks Casey!

The round thingy with an electronic board?
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Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget
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