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mtsipe Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2016 Posts: 86 Location: Wilmington, Delaware
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Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:35 am Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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zoti wrote: |
First, get the correct fuel filter installed. I don't even know what that thing you have there is.
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the clear inline filter I put on temporarily is because the clamp i used to disconnect the fuel pump to test it had slightly cut the fuel line from the tank. I will need to remove the tank to replace the line because I have no access to the connection at the tank with out removal |
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mtsipe Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2016 Posts: 86 Location: Wilmington, Delaware
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Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:21 am Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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Help! The cold start valve is stuck. Corrosion has welded the downstem of cold start valve and cannot be removed. When I unscrewed the mounting screws, the valve could not be removed. The top was loosened a bit and spinning freely. I attempted removing it and the top removed but the downstem remains in place in the fuel mixture chamber. A 1/4 inch is sticking out and i am afraid of breaking it. If it breaks, do i use a thread puller per-say like the image below or drill it out and vacuum the hell out of the chamber
(note: I do know the picture below is a threaded screw and not a straight piece of metal like the downstem is)
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:37 am Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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Grab it with some needle nose pliers. If you cannot get a hold of it, it will most likely end up falling into the manifold. That is just the way the cookie crumbles.
If that does not work, remove the drivers half of the intake manifold. _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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mtsipe Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2016 Posts: 86 Location: Wilmington, Delaware
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:26 am Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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I got the cold start valve stem out but not without some collateral damage to myself. Got a bloody eyebrow and fat lip in the process. I was able to remove it clean without any damage to the mixing chamber.
I have some wiring diagrams to read but one more piece of the puzzle worked through. Now to get the main injectors working. |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:24 am Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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Wow! Be careful. Bloody knuckles are par for the course the first several times. Once you get to the moderately skills level, it still happens but not to frequently.
The injectors fire off a signal from the coil. They all fire at the same time. Place them all in plastic ziplock bags. Remove the high tension wire from the cap and clip it to a good ground with no air between the wire and the ground point ( no sparks are wanted!). Then go crank the engine over. There should be some gas in the bags, if you have fuel and fuel pressure AND everything else is working. If not, check the injectors for carbon build up and retest. If still nothing, start ohming wires. _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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mtsipe Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2016 Posts: 86 Location: Wilmington, Delaware
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:36 am Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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VW_Jimbo wrote: |
The injectors fire off a signal from the coil. They all fire at the same time. Place them all in plastic ziplock bags. Remove the high tension wire from the cap and clip it to a good ground with no air between the wire and the ground point ( no sparks are wanted!). Then go crank the engine over. There should be some gas in the bags, if you have fuel and fuel pressure AND everything else is working. If not, check the injectors for carbon build up and retest. If still nothing, start ohming wires. |
Before the cold start issue, I got the fuel pressure corrected. I used plastic bags like you said but there was no fuel in them, although I did not remove the high tension wire like you said. I used a noid light tester to test the signal to all the injectors at the electrical connections but they were not getting signal thus not making the noid light to blink (only the cold start valve electrical connection was blinking) |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51144 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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Time to confirm the white #1 wire is connected to the #1 terminal on the ignition coil (the one the points wire connects to), then move on to the large plug on the ECU, is there continuity on that wire?, terminal damaged or corroded?, making good contact with the board?
Touching that wire to ground and removing it should fire all the injectors once, do it multiple times and you may even hear them clicking. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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mtsipe Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2016 Posts: 86 Location: Wilmington, Delaware
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Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:29 am Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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Update: Got the replacement cold start valve installed. It fires up and dies.
I confirmed the #1 white wire, that is connected to terminal 1, does have continuity to the #1 position on the ECU. No corrosion at the connections.
When you say to touch the wire to ground, do I do so with the key on to position 1 or start position? |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:14 am Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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mtsipe wrote: |
Update: Got the replacement cold start valve installed. It fires up and dies.
I confirmed the #1 white wire, that is connected to terminal 1, does have continuity to the #1 position on the ECU. No corrosion at the connections.
When you say to touch the wire to ground, do I do so with the key on to position 1 or start position? |
Terminal 1 at the ignition coil. Same side as the condenser wire.
This is why I asked for pictures. I can see way more than I can read. _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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mtsipe Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2016 Posts: 86 Location: Wilmington, Delaware
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Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:09 am Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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Take your camera and aim it at the center of the intake manifold. Then take 3 or 4 steps backwards, away from the engine, and click a picture.
Let’s see the whole thing. Something caught my eye with your linkage and air shroud. Not sure why but something is looking different.
Coil looks correctly wired, PROVIDING the numbers embossed on the coil itself are as the wiring is run. Those black ones should go to the 15 side and the green and white should go to the 1 side. You will need to check with a mirror. _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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mtsipe Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2016 Posts: 86 Location: Wilmington, Delaware
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Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:10 am Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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Where is the AFM connector? _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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mtsipe Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2016 Posts: 86 Location: Wilmington, Delaware
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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:18 am Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:42 am Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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Completely hidden!
So, on the alternator body, is a screw with 3 or more wires connected to it. Get to that and be sure the wires and crimps are all in good shape. Clean them well and reinstall.
Take a light base voltage tester. Confirm you have power with the key on at the black wires at the coil. Then, while someone cranks the engine, place the light pin on the #1 side of the coil, it should blink rapidly. Be mindful of the v belt.
Also, I would like to know one more detail. Remove the air filter, exposing the air meter flap. Should be right there closed, blocking your view through it. With a screw driver or your finger, push on it. Does it move freely, with very little resistance?
If those are in good shape. Take a can of starting fluid, slide the tube in past the flap, and squirt a shot. Remove the can and straw. Then go try to start the car. What happens? _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Last edited by VW_Jimbo on Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mtsipe Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2016 Posts: 86 Location: Wilmington, Delaware
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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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I found this wire severed. I put a new connector on, cleaned up all the connections and bolted the three wires down. I tried starting the engine and same thing happened, it started then died. I then noticed a “circled G” light on the instrument cluster. After a few cranks, the battery lost enough juice to crank. The light remained on when I removed the key. I figured it was from not having enough voltage on the battery but I’m not sure 🤔.
I then did the other test removing the air cleaner to see if the flap is moving freely and it does move with very little resistance.
I will have to do the test at the coil when I charge up my battery. |
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mtsipe Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2016 Posts: 86 Location: Wilmington, Delaware
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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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I pulled this from rob and Dave’s aircooled Vw website.
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:09 pm Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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So, it starts. Good, you have spark. The cold start valve is the reason it runs for a few seconds. So, your issue is why the injectors are not squirting fuel.
You can verify this with the carb cleaner. You can keep the car running by squirting small burst of fluid into the air filter opening. That test will verify my hypothesis.
If that comes back as I believe it will, we can move onto the next string of tests.
However, I am leaving town, camping and shooting out in the desert for the next week or so. I may be able to check in. But, if not, get busdaddy helping you out. He is a smart guy, well versed in this system.
Good luck! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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mtsipe Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2016 Posts: 86 Location: Wilmington, Delaware
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Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:51 am Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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I had a mechanic friend test the injectors why cranking the engine. the injector connector we tested had no ground when starting and about 0.9 volts(or 0.09 volts but he can't remember now). He said he wasn't sure if they are high or low impedance injectors. How much voltage do the injectors require to spray? I was going to test the double relay using a bosch l-jetronic trouble shooting guide. These are a couple links I found. I know one is not specific to the super beetle but is for the L-jetronic fuel injection system.
http://www.realtechsupport.org/UB/I2C/VW_L-Jetronic_Fuel_Injection_Workshop_Manual.pdf
https://bairheads.runboard.com/t50,offset=0
http://www.angelfire.com/wa2/fits/
Also, I know that the ECU provides ground to the injectors. Where is the ground location for the ECU? |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:00 am Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue |
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It has been forever since I worked on a FI Type 1, but I THINK the ECU/FI grounds are at a male connection on the alternator. I want to say it is at the topside but I really can't remember right off. |
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