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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16883
Location: sticksville, ct.
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 Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Surprise in oil change. What is it? |
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we must have hit submit at the same time 
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16971
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Surprise in oil change. What is it? |
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Oh God. It can’t be true. Robbie, you’re being tested by the great one.
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tristessa
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3992
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: Surprise in oil change. What is it? |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| we must have hit submit at the same time |
Probably. Guess I shouldn't have spent so much time dicking around trying to find a picture.
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Surprise in oil change. What is it? |
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| aeromech wrote: |
| I’m pretty sure those gloves were black latex |
What if they were silicone??
| a1steaksauce wrote: |
| But what all has access to drop parts down into the motor? The fuel pump is the only thing that really comes to mind. It’s been forever since I messed with a later stock fuel pump, but could that be a piece off of it? |
That's what I'm considering today… The oil filler dispenses straight into the cam gear well, and the passage for oil to move into the case is smaller than the debris. Of course, there are larger air passages around the height of the pistons, but oil doesn't get up there unless it was splashed. So I don't think the UFO (unidentified floating object) ended up in the oil filler. (I doubt the UFO was flung up by the cam gear into a passage that LeBron would be proud to shoot into…)
Into the sump itself, we're looking at cylinder spigots, since I had the right side cylinders off about 1,200 miles into the engine. Or from my last oil change, which was done in a closed garage with a waxed epoxy floor. (Not exactly a cluttered work environment…)
This engine has absolutely fought me tooth and nail throughout the process, from a bum VW of Brazil case, to OG heads that didn't have provisions for rocker stud seals, to oil consumption that was off the charts for the first 2,000 miles and now completely halted… It's keeping me on my toes, which is nice, but I'm ready to just floor the thing across the continent already. But that's next month…
| orwell84 wrote: |
| hot girlfriend, nipple ring, motor oil...put that together with the black neoprene gloves... |
I do keep my oil reserve near the bed, because that's a handy place to have it with the rear hatch open. But I don't let just any floozies in Buddy, unless it's The Floozies themselves. Plus, the last person I dated with "surplus jewelry" said goodbye to me at AndreWTF's place circa 2016. 
Robbie
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tristessa
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3992
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: Surprise in oil change. What is it? |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
| "surplus jewelry" |
It's only surplus if there isn't a hole for it. |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: Surprise in oil change. What is it? |
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| tristessa wrote: |
End of an oil ring spacer? Some of the sets I've seen over the years have red- and green-painted ends so you can tell if they're accidentally overlapped when you put the rings on the pistons. Plus I've seen some that look a bit like that.
Hard to tell scale on that red piece from the photograph, though.
EDIT: this is what I was thinking of and trying to describe:
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Oh fuck, that's 100% it!
Interestingly, when I had the cylinders off for case saver repair, I did not completely remove the pistons from the cylinders. So I either goofed and pulled one out too far, or this happened during the initial build and finally made its way to the strainer this month.
And to think my oil consumption finally calmed down with around 4k on the engine. Now taking bets on how long this one will last… 
Robbie
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16883
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: Surprise in oil change. What is it? |
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I suspect that it will just wear itself down to nothing. eventually the rails could very well collapse and send an epic amount of debris thru the system.
what rings? honestly, I don't trust anything in kits anymore and buy them direct from my machine shop.
Robbie, I know I give you a lot of shit but dude, I'm sorry...this sucks. I am so over the shitty quality available to us.
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: Surprise in oil change. What is it? |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I suspect that it will just wear itself down to nothing. eventually the rails could very well collapse and send an epic amount of debris thru the system.
what rings? honestly, I don't trust anything in kits anymore and buy them direct from my machine shop.
Robbie, I know I give you a lot of shit but dude, I'm sorry...this sucks. I am so over the shitty quality available to us. |
What will wear itself down to nothing?
These are the Mahle dished 85.5 pistons that a few suppliers sell. (Picture is wrong, but this is the kit.)
https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Piston-Cylinder-Set-85-5mm-x-69mm-Cast-Type-2-p/211-198-069ma.htm
I have some NOS Kolbenschmidt rings in storage that I can get installed next week, (assuming they work with the new pistons,) but frankly I'm going to do about 400 miles of driving and read the plugs. (I'd read them now, but it's raining.) If I can't tell what cylinder the tab broke off from from plug fouling, I'm going to buy a new set of P's and C's and keep them onboard. I can do the job in a day if I have access to a clean garage and no distractions. But if the plugs don't tell me, I don't feel the need to rush the job on the side of the road somewhere. I have a weekend in early July with a lift and spotless shop at my disposal, so if oil consumption goes up I'll do it there. If the engine behaves itself, I will treat it like the JB-Weld cam bearings of 2016 and rock it until the tin falls off.
Yeah we all need occasional shit to keep us honest. I'm not convinced I didn't remove the piston a LITTLE too far when I did the case saver surgery. I'd love to blame the parts quality, but I don't have a picture of my piston/cylinder removal besides this one, so a few mm of excess cylinder removal could have totally been my fault.
Robbie
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a1steaksauce
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2010
Posts: 612
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Surprise in oil change. What is it? |
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If your oil rings are undamaged I’d toss my vote in for you’ll be fine for quite some time.
But watching the plugs like you said and perhaps renting a borescope to look down into the cylinder walls with plugs removed might not be a bad idea in the meantime. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16883
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: Surprise in oil change. What is it? |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
What will wear itself down to nothing? |
the rails and the spreader
with no tension on the rails, they will rack even more with every piston cycle. I would guess they will fatigue and snap, or if you're lucky simply wear down to nubs at which point that spreader will dance and self destruct.
by doing the pistons the way you did them I would think if anything you folded the bottom rail up, or if it popped out it may not have been seated right causing the damage...dunno. but...that piece worked its way out...so it had to take a ride in that cylinder as it's never exposed outside the bore.
I suspect you're gonna find damage in that cylinder. there is simply no way for that piece to shit out without doing some damage
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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71whitewesty
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2010
Posts: 1544
Location: oregon
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: Surprise in oil change. What is it? |
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Well dog gone it! I had no idea what that thing was. I’m curious to see what the effects of loosing it are going to be.
Got a driveway here if needed.
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Xevin 
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 7635
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: Surprise in oil change. What is it? |
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Well shit. Robbie, you know where this quote is coming from. “I bet the right rings were overlapped. It's a common mistake. Easy to do. ” I have know idea what it means. Just sharing.
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Keep on Busin'
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
| SGKent wrote: |
| My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: Surprise in oil change. What is it? |
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This was my first engine with modern oil rings... I guarantee I spent a few hours making sure the green and red “lands” ended up in the correct spot, because that’s what one does when subjected to newfangled technology... the last engine was old-style one-piece oil control rings, and the compression rings even had the strip of molybdenum in the middle of them.
We’re rocking it. 200 miles to Bend, 200 more in errands and work this week, and then a nice drive from Boise, ID to Minneapolis, MN. 
See you on the road, or in your driveway,
Robbie
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timvw7476
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013
Posts: 2206
Location: seattle
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: Surprise in oil change. What is it? |
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| aeromech wrote: |
| That fucker might have a part number on it |
really?
I mean I'm okay with TOP & OBEN & divots for ring orientation,
& I've seen some mighty fine microprint on some CV boot flanges lately
but ......oh never mind.
At least now he'll tear it apart & address the issue. maybe. me I'd run it.
just atypical parts shedding. |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:33 am Post subject: Re: Surprise in oil change. What is it? |
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| tristessa wrote: |
End of an oil ring spacer? Some of the sets I've seen over the years have red- and green-painted ends so you can tell if they're accidentally overlapped when you put the rings on the pistons. Plus I've seen some that look a bit like that.
Hard to tell scale on that red piece from the photograph, though.
EDIT: this is what I was thinking of and trying to describe:
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tristessa for the win, well done.
You get a years supply of kale from CT
I would run that sucker and watch oil consumption until I’m at home in the Mangroves.
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Manfred58sc
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2009
Posts: 3382
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:17 am Post subject: Re: Surprise in oil change. What is it? |
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I've had ring quality problems as of late as well, Grant's that were too wide and inconsistent. Hastings still seem OK , they come with Mexican Moreso's , a decent set .
Should run fine with a floating oil ring
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Surprise in oil change. What is it? |
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| aeromech wrote: |
| That fucker might have a TYPE III part number on it |
I know its judgy but I have to guess you dropped the piston a bit too low and caught that and fell in. I can't see it working its way out per above, either.
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7549
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Surprise in oil change. What is it? |
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Gotta hold your mouth right when using the ring compressor on those!
Bet you a plug is telling you which hole that came from by now..
Plug would be getting pretty goopy before the rest of that ring might start getting loose in there IMHO.
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7549
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Surprise in oil change. What is it? |
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Aren't you glad it happened on your motor and not a customer?
If you had to have it happen, it happened on the right motor!
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