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uffdakev Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2007 Posts: 94 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:07 pm Post subject: Can't raise front end with adjustable beam |
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I have been trying to raise my front end with an adjusable beam I installed 10 years ago when I had the body off. All new bushings, tie rod ends steering damper, sway bar etc. I wasn't happy with how it steered so I am trying to raise the front end hopefully closer to standard. The attached picture shows the current setting for the adjuster grub screws. The lock plate is only there for demonstration.
I have the wheels hanging and the shocks released. I have bounced the tires. I have read that the wheels should drop and the car will sit at it's highest profile.
Nothing has changed. Any help? _________________ Kevin
70 Ghia vert |
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Phat73 Samba Member
Joined: July 05, 2018 Posts: 95 Location: Victoria BC
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Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Can't raise front end with adjustable beam |
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try undoing your shocks, it may be that the shocks are maxxed out in their travel. JM2cW _________________ I succeed because I fail. |
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jeffrey8164 Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 3818 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: Can't raise front end with adjustable beam |
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It’s actually a little more difficult as the upper and lower arms pre load on one another. Nothing will “fall”. It will need some coercion. Keep in mind that most all adjustable beams start a little lower than stock in their highest position. _________________ Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12856 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Can't raise front end with adjustable beam |
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With the shocks off, front of vehicle off the ground, remove both upper & lower clamps & push down on the wheels. You can also slip a 11-12mm deep socket over the clamping stud, insert an extension into the socket & try pushing up on the extension. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Onceler Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010 Posts: 1647 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: Can't raise front end with adjustable beam |
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The sway bar might be holding things up _________________ 1972 Karmann Ghia |
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rcooled Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008 Posts: 2506 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:34 am Post subject: Re: Can't raise front end with adjustable beam |
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TDCTDI wrote: |
You can also slip a 11-12mm deep socket over the clamping stud, insert an extension into the socket & try pushing up on the extension. |
You can also insert a proper-size long hex wrench into the grub screws to use as leverage when trying to move the grub screws up or down. _________________ '63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone) |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12856 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Can't raise front end with adjustable beam |
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rcooled wrote: |
TDCTDI wrote: |
You can also slip a 11-12mm deep socket over the clamping stud, insert an extension into the socket & try pushing up on the extension. |
You can also insert a proper-size long hex wrench into the grub screws to use as leverage when trying to move the grub screws up or down. |
The crappy Chinese studs tend to be a bit soft and since the engagement area is maybe 1/4", they tend to "cam out" & will wallow the opening & distort the threaded area where you would start the nut. I REALLY advise against this method. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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rcooled Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008 Posts: 2506 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Can't raise front end with adjustable beam |
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TDCTDI wrote: |
I REALLY advise against this method. |
I've done this several times to make changes to an adjustable beam with no harm to the grub screws. My beams weren't frozen up like the OP's seem to be though. I wouldn't put excessive force on the grub screws anyway...if they don't move fairly easily, best to just explore some other way to get this done.
Could also remove the grub screw & adjuster plate, squirt in some PB Blaster or equiv, then for leverage, screw a long bolt into the puck and see if you can get it to move. _________________ '63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone) |
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uffdakev Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2007 Posts: 94 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Can't raise front end with adjustable beam |
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Ok, I have tried everything mentioned here. I had already removed the shocks, I removed the sway bar, I pried down on the tires while in the air with a 2x4, I lowered the car onto the ground and bounced on it, I put a nut on the grub screw and pried on it with a socket. No movement at all. I know I lubed the beam many years ago but maybe not enough. Would it be too late to add more lube? The car only has about 4 miles on it since the restoration. _________________ Kevin
70 Ghia vert |
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c21darrel Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009 Posts: 8211 Location: San Dimas
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uffdakev Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2007 Posts: 94 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Can't raise front end with adjustable beam |
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I looks like there is a small amount of 'down' available, maybe one notch. But when I put the car on the ground and bounced it, no change. _________________ Kevin
70 Ghia vert |
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didget69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004 Posts: 4927 Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: Can't raise front end with adjustable beam |
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uffdakev wrote: |
I looks like there is a small amount of 'down' available, maybe one notch. But when I put the car on the ground and bounced it, no change. |
Sounds like it's time to pull the beam apart.
Curious, you mentioned not liking how the car steered.
Explain - was it hard to center when driving straight ahead, or was it wandering at higher speeds?
Anything?
Bryan _________________ I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12856 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: Can't raise front end with adjustable beam |
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Does this beam use original style torsion arm bearings or does it have the crappy urethane bushings? _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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uffdakev Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2007 Posts: 94 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Can't raise front end with adjustable beam |
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The car wandered when I drove it. I had aligned it myself, but it had 3" + play in the steering wheel so I rebuilt the steering box per the instructions here on the Samba. After that it drove worse. Admittedly I hadn't realigned it yet, but I thought that it having an adjustable beam I might raise it up to a normal height. This being the most easy fix attempt. (ha ha).
It does not have the urethane bushings on the front. _________________ Kevin
70 Ghia vert |
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didget69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004 Posts: 4927 Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Can't raise front end with adjustable beam |
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Sounds like Caster may be out as well.
Bryan _________________ I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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ghiacrew Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2008 Posts: 15 Location: Amarillo TX
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Can't raise front end with adjustable beam |
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If I am not mistaken, shouldn't those grub screws be pointing up toward the gas tank to raise the front end? |
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uffdakev Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2007 Posts: 94 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Can't raise front end with adjustable beam |
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Yes, I am trying to get the grub screws to move up. _________________ Kevin
70 Ghia vert |
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jbillow Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2015 Posts: 72 Location: Gansevoort, NY
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Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Can't raise front end with adjustable beam |
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specially designed ball joints should be used with adjustable beams. They allow for sharper angles and extension. Yours could be binding. take your wheels off for a better look. you can also pop your ball joints out of the spindles (both sides) and see if the beam moves, as I suspect your issue is more in your spindle/ball joint as opposed to the beam itself. |
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uffdakev Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2007 Posts: 94 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Can't raise front end with adjustable beam |
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I am redoing the steering box that I did incorrectly and then I am going to align the front end including caster.
Here are two pictures to show my front left ball joints (from front and rear).
This is with the car on jack stands and wheels off.
Do these look like the ball joint is binding? _________________ Kevin
70 Ghia vert |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12856 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Can't raise front end with adjustable beam |
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Remove the center clamping studs on both upper & lower center adjusters, this will allow you to cycle the suspension to both extremes to see where the balljoints reach their limits.
Your balljoints are either clocked incorrectly or you're using modern balljoints that don't have the notches. If clocked incorrectly, you'll reach the max angle really quickly, if using modern balljoints, you may not have the original full range of motion.
I will say that your suspension travel has a much greater range of motion than your shocks appear to have. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.
Last edited by TDCTDI on Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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