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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3551 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing a stumbling type 4 Engine |
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Coil resistance readings, unless way off, are generally a poor indicator of coil condition. Best diagnosis is to swap in a known good coil and see if the symptoms improve.
I assume you've checked the points and the points plate ground wire.
Might swap in a known good condenser (although "new" ones have been somewhat marginal lately...). _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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Whaanga Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2016 Posts: 625 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing a stumbling type 4 Engine |
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Thank You - I've 'looked' at the points and cleaned them with some fine grit sand paper. I checked the connections on the condenser and didn't 'see' any anomalies. I have a new coil, condenser, and a new set of points standing by but want to test each component separately rather then just swap out parts without a logical approach.
From what I can see here, the connections look solid.
As I said in my earlier post, electronic diagnosis kicks my butt so am grateful for the help here. I'm trying to learn how to work through the components systematically track to down the problem rather than just swap out parts and 'hope ' for the best. _________________ Late 1973 Bay w/a transplanted 914 Engine |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3551 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing a stumbling type 4 Engine |
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Whaanga wrote: |
I've 'looked' at the points and cleaned them with some fine grit sand paper. |
From what I can see in the pic, it looks like the points have seen better days. The contact faces should be flat, smooth, and shiny, and they must meet squarely.
Under the rotor, there should be a flat bare copper braid wire connecting the fixed part of the points plate assembly to the movable plate the points are mounted on. Make sure this is intact and well fastened on either end.
Quote: |
I checked the connections on the condenser and didn't 'see' any anomalies. I have a new coil, condenser, and a new set of points standing by but want to test each component separately rather then just swap out parts without a logical approach.
From what I can see here, the connections look solid.
As I said in my earlier post, electronic diagnosis kicks my butt so am grateful for the help here. I'm trying to learn how to work through the components systematically track to down the problem rather than just swap out parts and 'hope ' for the best. |
An admirable diagnostic method, for sure, and one I highly recommend - given proper test equipment (like an ignition 'scope). Without that, some times the quickest method is to substitute a known good part, and I think that this one of them. That said, I'd do it one part at a time (in this order: points, condenser, coil). If the substitution doesn't make a significant difference, either swap the old part back in, or save it as a good spare.
From the pic, the distributor looks a mite dirty. I'd be inclined to pull it, carefully disassemble the big pieces (vacuum can, points plate, wiring), and give it a good cleaning and lube. If you leave the hold down clamp attached to the distributor, you should be able to reinstall it without significantly affecting the timing. _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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Hoody Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007 Posts: 1948
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Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing a stumbling type 4 Engine |
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It sounds to me that you are having intermittent spark issues causing the engine to miss on one or more cylinders. I know that some people here have had excellent results with NGK plugs and wires. I am a big fan of Genuine Japanese parts. Even if this does not solve your problem it will be money well spent. But I have a feeling that one or more of your spark plug ends is not continuously operating as it should which is why you are getting good to decent to bad back to good results. These engines vibrate quite a bit unless they are perfectly balanced. NGK plug wires do not have the issues that many of the other brands do in this regard. Just a thought. |
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Whaanga Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2016 Posts: 625 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Diagnosing a stumbling type 4 Engine |
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Thanks Hoody,
Again, trying to learn to diagnose as opposed to swapping out parts and hoping for a change, how do we evaluate the health of the plugs? Obviously, they can be removed and inspected but if they 'look' to be in good health, how do you determine if they are firing properly? _________________ Late 1973 Bay w/a transplanted 914 Engine |
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Whaanga Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2016 Posts: 625 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing a stumbling type 4 Engine |
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I pulled the plugs and as you see, there is lots of buildup from my overly rich running carb. Might this have an effect on the intermittent issue I'm dealing with?
_________________ Late 1973 Bay w/a transplanted 914 Engine |
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Hoody Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007 Posts: 1948
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing a stumbling type 4 Engine |
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Yes....those plugs will definitely cause issues. PM sent. |
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