Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Breather issue.
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
gitchesum
Samba Member


Joined: November 10, 2003
Posts: 513
Location: North Cali
gitchesum is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:08 pm    Post subject: Breather issue. Reply with quote

I've read every breather post on here, and have still not got anywhere with this.
2276, FK8, built by Steve Tims, using his heads and more. This is his breather set up, but not necessarily his routing.
PO put the engine in the car.
Currently has about 1,300 K miles, plus the dyno time. I'd think it's broken in.

Still get a fair amount of mist from what I believe is the crank pulley. Next step is to remove that serpentine system and go with stock pulleys.
Currently routed 1/2 valve cover to B
Fuel Pump BO to C
Oil filler pipe to carb ( not happy about that ).

Thoughts ?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Looking for SP Kadron manifolds...please !!



57 SC
61 rag w/356B brakes
61 356B
Honda XLR 250, 69 Z50, Yamaha 100 Enduro...and others.
GMC SLT 4x4 Dmax
Kubota L3710, not enuf attachments.
And various VW's that come and go...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Turnswrenches
Samba Member


Joined: May 02, 2019
Posts: 552
Location: Dawsonville, GA
Turnswrenches is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Breather issue. Reply with quote

I just use a cheap buggy breather kit on my 2332 and havent seen a drop of oil anywhere.
Each valve cover has a hose into each end... and center hose goes to oil fill/crankcase.


Just my opinion... but Id get rid of the line going to RH air cleaner.
Any oil mist will cause detonation.
The only thing entering my engine is fresh air and fuel.
If you have a ton of blowby... that would cause issues too.

Did you look at the crank pulley ?
I think some are machined smooth for a crank seal, and some have a spiral groove cut in them to direct stray oil back into the engine.
Maybe theres an issue there ?


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last edited by Turnswrenches on Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Howard 111
Samba Member


Joined: July 09, 2005
Posts: 1827
Location: Virginia
Howard 111 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Breather issue. Reply with quote

I have the same setup as Turnswrenches, and run a turbo, but no oil leaks anywhere.
_________________
1973 Karmann Ghia
Turbocharged, Fuel Injected
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=531270
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Classifieds Feedback
gitchesum
Samba Member


Joined: November 10, 2003
Posts: 513
Location: North Cali
gitchesum is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Breather issue. Reply with quote

Turnswrenches wrote:
I just use a cheap buggy breather kit on my 2332 and havent seen a drop of oil anywhere.
Each valve cover has a hose into each end... and center hose goes to oil fill/crankcase.


Just my opinion... but Id get rid of the line going to RH air cleaner.
Any oil mist will cause detonation.
The only thing entering my engine is fresh air and fuel.
If you have a ton of blowby... that would cause issues too.

Did you look at the crank pulley ?
I think some are machined smooth for a crank seal, and some have a spiral groove cut in them to direct stray oil back into the engine.
Maybe theres an issue there ?




I don’t see where that center hose is going too. Plus you have an aftermarket pulley too.. is your oil filler tube venting too ?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Looking for SP Kadron manifolds...please !!



57 SC
61 rag w/356B brakes
61 356B
Honda XLR 250, 69 Z50, Yamaha 100 Enduro...and others.
GMC SLT 4x4 Dmax
Kubota L3710, not enuf attachments.
And various VW's that come and go...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Alstrup
Samba Member


Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7183
Location: Videbaek Denmark
Alstrup is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:21 am    Post subject: Re: Breather issue. Reply with quote

gitchesum wrote:
I've read every breather post on here, and have still not got anywhere with this.
2276, FK8, built by Steve Tims, using his heads and more. This is his breather set up, but not necessarily his routing.
PO put the engine in the car.
Currently has about 1,300 K miles, plus the dyno time. I'd think it's broken in.

Still get a fair amount of mist from what I believe is the crank pulley. Next step is to remove that serpentine system and go with stock pulleys.
Currently routed 1/2 valve cover to B
Fuel Pump BO to C
Oil filler pipe to carb ( not happy about that ).

Thoughts ?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

It looks to be in an early Bay. Its most likely running a little hot. Does the engine have an external oil cooler to aid?
Routing the hose from the oil filler to the carb should not be a problem as such. But those small stupid aftermarket oil fillers DO NOT work as intended. there are no baffles inside. Its just a "fancy" filler. Due to that it is generally a no go. It should be routed to the upper cannister. The cannister looks to be more than well vented, but if you would like a slightly more enclosed system you route a hose from the upper side of the cannister to the carbs. It is correct that oil mist increases the risk of detonation, but if the engine is ok and the breather system is made properly it is not a problem.
Personally I do not like the valve cover venting. I will much rather use the slight over pressure to help sending the oil back into the case so there is room for fresh oil. Valve cover venting is mainly a misunderstood part of the PCV system, which hardly anyone use nowadays. (Racing is different.)
Since you have superior venting capacity in that cannister I would route the hose from the oil filler to the "A" position and block the hole in the aircleaner.
If we really should get into it you can reroute the hoses to amore appropriate hook up.
There seem to be three inlets so we will use those.
Route the hose from the fuel pump area to "B" due to it being the lowest point and that is where the oil should drain back.
Route valve cover hoses and oil filler hoses to "A" & "C" however you like it. That is of less importance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
oprn
Samba Member


Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12633
Location: Western Canada
oprn is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:54 am    Post subject: Re: Breather issue. Reply with quote

In addition to what Alsrup says, I am looking at the size of fittings and hoses. There are really only two that vent the crankcase and they are too long and too small. They would not even flow as much air as the stock down tube on the stock oil filler which by the way is not there.

You have increased the engine displacement by 42% and DECREASED the venting capacity by likely more than that.

The quick and easy fix in my view would be to put the stock filler and vent down tube back on.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
gitchesum
Samba Member


Joined: November 10, 2003
Posts: 513
Location: North Cali
gitchesum is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:25 am    Post subject: Re: Breather issue. Reply with quote

The oil filler tube has a -8 fitting in it now, that originally went to the A plug. I need to weld on a -8 bung on the bottom and run the FP plate hose to that, so it will drain back.
I'll also put on the stock filler tube with the vent under the engine.

This is in a Thing. No thought on the Serpentine pulley ?
_________________
Looking for SP Kadron manifolds...please !!



57 SC
61 rag w/356B brakes
61 356B
Honda XLR 250, 69 Z50, Yamaha 100 Enduro...and others.
GMC SLT 4x4 Dmax
Kubota L3710, not enuf attachments.
And various VW's that come and go...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jpaull
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3456
Location: Paradise, Ca
jpaull is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:33 am    Post subject: Re: Breather issue. Reply with quote

Regarding the pulley, you have to change to a different one and not change anything else to truly know. I had a pulley where the O.D of the spiral was slightly smaller, and wouldnt seal.
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
gitchesum
Samba Member


Joined: November 10, 2003
Posts: 513
Location: North Cali
gitchesum is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: Breather issue. Reply with quote

jpaull wrote:
Regarding the pulley, you have to change to a different one and not change anything else to truly know. I had a pulley where the O.D of the spiral was slightly smaller, and wouldnt seal.


The stock pulley doesn't really seal...It has deeper grooves on the snout, and a very squared off cut at the flange. Meant to throw back any small amount of oil that get's that far. Most aftermarket pulleys don't have the deep grooves, and have a radius at the snout.
_________________
Looking for SP Kadron manifolds...please !!



57 SC
61 rag w/356B brakes
61 356B
Honda XLR 250, 69 Z50, Yamaha 100 Enduro...and others.
GMC SLT 4x4 Dmax
Kubota L3710, not enuf attachments.
And various VW's that come and go...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mark tucker
Samba Member


Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
mark tucker is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Breather issue. Reply with quote

I hope it's had atleast 3 oil&filter changes.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vwracerdave
Samba Member


Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15280
Location: Deep in the 405
vwracerdave is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Breather issue. Reply with quote

I would

Plug air cleaner vent
left valve cover to "A"
fuel pump to "B"
oil fill to new bung installed somewhere between "B" and "C"
right valve cover to "C"

Throw the serpentine belt in the trash and get a Gene Berg Achiever pulley.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63

Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
gitchesum
Samba Member


Joined: November 10, 2003
Posts: 513
Location: North Cali
gitchesum is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Breather issue. Reply with quote

vwracerdave wrote:
I would

Plug air cleaner vent
left valve cover to "A"
fuel pump to "B"
oil fill to new bung installed somewhere between "B" and "C"
right valve cover to "C"

Throw the serpentine belt in the trash and get a Gene Berg Achiever pulley.



Left valve cover, 3/4? Don’t see many people advocating that .
Not sure about the pulley, but all else is what I was going to try next.
_________________
Looking for SP Kadron manifolds...please !!



57 SC
61 rag w/356B brakes
61 356B
Honda XLR 250, 69 Z50, Yamaha 100 Enduro...and others.
GMC SLT 4x4 Dmax
Kubota L3710, not enuf attachments.
And various VW's that come and go...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76760
Location: Sneaking up behind you
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Breather issue. Reply with quote

Not sure what the problem is....

I have a 2180 with FK8 and Steve Tims heads and have no problem with just both valve covers vented to a Berg breather.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
oprn
Samba Member


Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12633
Location: Western Canada
oprn is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:38 am    Post subject: Re: Breather issue. Reply with quote

The problem as I see it is right at the case and right valve cover. Those 2 pretty connectors and hoses most likely have less than 1/2 the breathing capacity that your system has. Everything past those 2 hoses is rendered useless because the crankcase vapours can't get there. It's building up inside the engine and can't get out fast enough.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
k@rlos
Samba Member


Joined: October 04, 2012
Posts: 485
Location: Suffolk, England
k@rlos is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:10 am    Post subject: Re: Breather issue. Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


My 2110 with an FK10, ultra mag heads and IDA’s.

Fastfab breather box mounted on the fire wall, each rocker cover vented and the fuel pump block off connects to the original breather on the filler with a t piece then goes to the breather box also. Uses -8 hose and regularly turns 7000rpm and doesn’t breathe a drop a oil.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
chrisflstf
Samba Member


Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3413
Location: San Diego
chrisflstf is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: Breather issue. Reply with quote

You should shorten that fuel pump blockoff hose so it doesnt go downhill. It will trap fluid in the low spot
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
HotStreetVw
Samba Member


Joined: October 03, 2004
Posts: 871
Location: Wild West
HotStreetVw is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: Breather issue. Reply with quote

I would eliminate the valve cover breathers all together and improve breathing off the filler and fuel pump block off. Replace your empi oil filler with a Jaycee -10, same with the fuel pump.

This is a 2724cc that turns 8500rpm. With a CSP breather and a -10 from the fuel pump block off. I replaced the CSP oil filler cap with the KN cone filter. KISS (Keep it simple and stupid)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
4inBhore
50 Split - 2724cc NA. Haltech injected
62 Notchback - 2542cc Turbo WIP
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Gallery Classifieds Feedback
buguy
Samba Member


Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 4915
Location: Port Orange, FL
buguy is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:36 am    Post subject: Re: Breather issue. Reply with quote

I like that idea of putting a filter/breather where the oil fill cap was. Smart
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
gitchesum
Samba Member


Joined: November 10, 2003
Posts: 513
Location: North Cali
gitchesum is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: Breather issue. Reply with quote

All good ideas worth trying. Like I said earlier, previous owner had this hooked up, but not necessarily like originally intended.

Thanks again for the responses.
_________________
Looking for SP Kadron manifolds...please !!



57 SC
61 rag w/356B brakes
61 356B
Honda XLR 250, 69 Z50, Yamaha 100 Enduro...and others.
GMC SLT 4x4 Dmax
Kubota L3710, not enuf attachments.
And various VW's that come and go...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jeffrey8164 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3804
Location: Georgia
jeffrey8164 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: Breather issue. Reply with quote

buguy wrote:
I like that idea of putting a filter/breather where the oil fill cap was. Smart

It looks pretty now but will eventually be a goopy mess.
Been there.
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.

“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.