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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:26 pm Post subject: Need an automotive electrical engineering genius... |
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to diagnose the weirdest problem I've ever seen on my 03 Maxima.
The car has an in dash Bose 6 CD changer, tape deck, radio combo. About 90% of the time the CD mechanism has loads of trouble reading a disc -- it skips, pauses, mistracks, won't find the next track, etc...-- But ONLY when the engine is on! As soon as I turn the engine off, it immediately starts playing perfectly with no hint of problems. Turn the engine back on and BAM all sorts of issues again.
My first thought was that it was simply the vibration from the engine, so I removed the unit from the dash (leaving it plugged in), placed it on pillows on my knee to isolate it, and tested it that way and it still had the same problem. VERY occasionally it will play a disc all the way through with the engine on with no problem, but very rare. Having the engine on also does not affect the radio or tape portions of the unit they both work fine, it's just the CD mechanism.
Is there anything within the CD portion of this thing that would be adversely affected by having the engine on, say for example oh I don't know- some kind of rectifier that suppreses voltage surge only when the engine is on? And only in the CD mechanism? Contrary to most factory units I actually like the way this system sounds when working properly, so I'd like to see about getting it working right. Nissan dealer is obviously a waste of time. Need an actual electrical guru to tell me what's going on. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34012 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: Need an automotive electrical engineering genius... |
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I'd start by measuring the voltage present at the radio power terminals with the engine at rest and when running. Maybe it's fine on the 12V of the battery, but if your alternator is overcharging, maybe the excessive voltage is tripping up some circuit. |
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Manfred58sc Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2009 Posts: 3382
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: Need an automotive electrical engineering genius... |
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I used to build and test CD-ROM, the boards have all sorts of diodes to clean up power. Sounds like one failed. I bet a used one could be had for like $20 ( from one of the many used parts sites representing various junkyards), since hardly anyone listens to CD's anymore. _________________ Fat chick owner/operator |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:46 am Post subject: Re: Need an automotive electrical engineering genius... |
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Manfred58sc wrote: |
I used to build and test CD-ROM, the boards have all sorts of diodes to clean up power. Sounds like one failed. I bet a used one could be had for like $20 ( from one of the many used parts sites representing various junkyards), since hardly anyone listens to CD's anymore. |
The only problem with this idea is that these changer units (only put in the 2002-2003 Maximas) were so notoriously unreliable even aside from the problem I'm having, that to find a perfectly working one in a salvage yard would be a small miracle. The fact that mine works perfectly when the engine is off, is astonishing. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51146 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Need an automotive electrical engineering genius... |
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Then it sounds like you'll have to install some sort of voltage regulator circuit in it's power supply line. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Need an automotive electrical engineering genius... |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Then it sounds like you'll have to install some sort of voltage regulator circuit in it's power supply line. |
I'm wondering if the alternator is the culprit- I bought this car with a bad alternator and replaced it with a remanufactured OEM one off ebay. Good idea above about checking the power output on the stereo harness with engine off and on. I also seem to have random issues with a cylinder misfire every once in a while. Wonder if a new alternator would fix it all. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11056 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Need an automotive electrical engineering genius... |
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Yes a funky charging alternator can cause all sorts of electrical mysteries.. especially if a rectifier is bad..
Agree... if its overcharging... it cause mayhem as well ..
Had a Buick once.. that ran fine.. intermittently the Alternator would wack out on its own .. would spike output 16 volts.. and modules would randomly shut down as self protection.. and then wake right back up the next key cycle.
Measuring the voltage before, during, and after cranking may tell the tale.
Thats fairly easy to diagnose .. Disconnect the alternator electrically.. crank and start the car.. if the issue is gone suspect the alternator.. . You just cant run it for a long time.. It may last a half hour without it charging...
Ill add another common issue into the mix that effects the entertainment buss and "modules" after engine cranking..
If the starter motor amps are too high during cranking.. or battery cranking amps is high and voltage is too low during cranking. .. TILT...
While you may not notice anything unusual during cranking.. .... a large current flow to the starter can rob available voltage to other circuits..
In other words.. while the engine is cranking.. the radio is trying to boot on the low voltage... it goes wacko..
Its the ole GIGO.... garbage in..garbage out..way of thinking.
Make sure the simply battery terminals and connections are clean and tight. Check the main ground from the battery to the body/engine as well.
The battery is the main "noise" filter.. make sure it good as well.
All that noted,,,, it could still be a stupid radio in the end...
. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:37 am Post subject: Re: Need an automotive electrical engineering genius... |
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VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Thats fairly easy to diagnose .. Disconnect the alternator electrically.. crank and start the car.. if the issue is gone suspect the alternator.. . You just cant run it for a long time.. It may last a half hour without it charging... |
There's an idea...
Do I need to disconnect both the B+ battery charging lead AND the multi-pin harness plug, or just the plug? _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11056 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:50 am Post subject: Re: Need an automotive electrical engineering genius... |
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sb001 wrote: |
VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Thats fairly easy to diagnose .. Disconnect the alternator electrically.. crank and start the car.. if the issue is gone suspect the alternator.. . You just cant run it for a long time.. It may last a half hour without it charging... |
There's an idea...
Do I need to disconnect both the B+ battery charging lead AND the multi-pin harness plug, or just the plug? |
Yes...
You want all the connections loose from the alternator... ..maybe even pull its belt as well. .. but Id go in baby and easy steps first.
Check main battery connections at BOTH and all ends.
Clean and tighten as necessary... sometimes its that simple.
Measure voltage.. pre, during and post cranking... first to get a baseline.
Engine back off. .. disconnect ALL the alternator electrical connections .. which will basically remove its electrical path .. Measure voltage the same way..
If the condition is gone.. well ya know
If ithe condition remains.. pull the belt and try again.
If it remains after that... its something else. Id go for starter amps next.
Dont assume a connection is clean and tight.. by a visual alone.
. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16879 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Need an automotive electrical engineering genius... |
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junk aftermarket coil packs do all sorts of neat things too _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11056 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Need an automotive electrical engineering genius... |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
junk aftermarket coil packs do all sorts of neat things too |
Junk aftermarket anything.. do all sorts of neat things ..
. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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