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Malokin Martin
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Joined: August 19, 2007
Posts: 3099
Location: E-burg
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 Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:22 pm Post subject: 40 horse to 1600+ engine apron/lid swap |
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Would someone mind walking me through which rear apron and deck lid I would need to switch up from a 40 horse (to 1600+)? I searched and didn’t see this answered, but maybe someone has a link?
The catch is different, so I understand I would need to switch both?
Does anyone have a measurement of the front-to-back width differences at the small part of the bow along the apron (near the catch)?
Thank you in advance! |
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thom
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2000
Posts: 5943
Location: Sacramento
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:16 am Post subject: Re: 40 horse to 1600+ engine apron/lid swap |
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Why do you think you need to switch the engine lid and apron for a different engine size?
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1956 Single Cab
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof
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1963 Unimog 404
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Malokin Martin
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2007
Posts: 3099
Location: E-burg
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:46 am Post subject: Re: 40 horse to 1600+ engine apron/lid swap |
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| The rear engine tin is a different size from my understanding |
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Peter_N
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Joined: February 19, 2014
Posts: 321
Location: The Netherlands
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:42 am Post subject: Re: 40 horse to 1600+ engine apron/lid swap |
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| Peter_N wrote: |
I don't think you've to change your apron.
Only switching from a 36hp to a later type1 engine will need this. |
A little more detail...
MAY59 VW switched the bus from the 36 HP engine to the what folks commonly now call the "Bastard 40 HP engine". The Bastard 40 HP engine is actually a 36 HP (30 BPH) output engine!! It is that the Bastard 40 HP engine has all the LOOKS of the AUG1960 and later 40 HP engine. Rear apron was changed at the same time to fit the new Bastard 40 HP engine tin.
We have a DEC59 built 1960 model walk thru panel camper conversion bus with the original stock rear apron, and running an early 1970s engine case with 1641cc P&Cs, and stock 1500/1600 engine tin. It all fits just fine.
If one has a bus built previous to MAY59. One can either chop up the Bastard 40 HP thru 1600 rear engine tin to fit the early apron, or install the MAY59 thru mid-64 rear apron to fit the later engine tin and still work with the 1955-MAY59 engine lid latch.
More info here on the engine lid/arm changes:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60185&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
And info on the rear aprons:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=128764
Both threads are in the "Split Bus FAQ and How Tos - *Read before posting*" at the top of the split bus forum, and is a must to go thru over and over to soak up the info there.
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thom
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2000
Posts: 5943
Location: Sacramento
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: 40 horse to 1600+ engine apron/lid swap |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| We have a DEC59 built 1960 model walk thru panel camper conversion bus with the original stock rear apron, and running an early 1970s engine case with 1641cc P&Cs, and stock 1500/1600 engine tin. It all fits just fine. |
I too have a 1960 panel with the original apron and a 1600 - no fitment issues at all.
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-Thom
1956 Single Cab
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof
1957 23-Window Deluxe
1957 Mercedes Westfalia single cab
1963 Unimog 404
1965 E-Type |
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Busted-bolt
Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2018
Posts: 514
Location: minnesoota
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: 40 horse to 1600+ engine apron/lid swap |
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Im just wondering if the rearmost engine tin that attaches to the cylinder tin was changed to go with the body apron. So all one has to do is just match both aprons : engine and body?
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: 40 horse to 1600+ engine apron/lid swap |
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| Busted-bolt wrote: |
| Im just wondering if the rearmost engine tin that attaches to the cylinder tin was changed to go with the body apron. So all one has to do is just match both aprons : engine and body? |
Yes, see the above post about matching rear apron with rear engine tin.
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Clara 
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Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12400
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:59 am Post subject: Re: 40 horse to 1600+ engine apron/lid swap |
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My April 61 has a 1600 SP engine, the tin/ apron fits fine.
This pic was right after running the SST, so there was some dust.
With the later engine, and the early apron,
you can leave the rear seal off.
You can fit the apron above, (below?) the rear tin,
You cannot have the rear engine tin of a 1600 fit into the V of the apron seal with a 36HP apron, like it would with the later apron
I've seen the rear tin cut so the V of the seal fits around it.
Or you could run a later apron.
Here is my 56 westy with crank start 36HP apron, and 1600 engine.
The V of the seal does not fit around the engine tin
No cutting, put the apron over the engine tin:
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Who.Me?
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 2211
Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: 40 horse to 1600+ engine apron/lid swap |
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| Clara wrote: |
M
Here is my 56 westy with crank start 36HP apron, and 1600 engine.
The V of the seal does not fit around the engine tin
No cutting, put the apron over the engine tin:
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(Apologies to M M for the slight thread drift)...
Is there any difference between the curvature of a 36hp crank-start rear tin for a bus vs a beetle?
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: 40 horse to 1600+ engine apron/lid swap |
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| Who.Me? wrote: |
Is there any difference between the curvature of a 36hp crank-start rear tin for a bus vs a beetle? |
Beetle got the same 40HP and later engine compartment shape in AUG1960 for the 1961 model year, as the previous MAY59 and later bus got. Engine rear tin shaped also changed for the beetle for the 1961 model year.
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EverettB
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Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69823
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: 40 horse to 1600+ engine apron/lid swap |
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| Who.Me? wrote: |
| Is there any difference between the curvature of a 36hp crank-start rear tin for a bus vs a beetle? |
No but the Beetle crank-start ended in the 25hp era and there are some differences between a 25hp/early 36hp and a regular 36hp piece of tin.
They are not related to the curvature though.
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Who.Me?
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 2211
Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:06 am Post subject: Re: 40 horse to 1600+ engine apron/lid swap |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| Who.Me? wrote: |
| Is there any difference between the curvature of a 36hp crank-start rear tin for a bus vs a beetle? |
No but the Beetle crank-start ended in the 25hp era and there are some differences between a 25hp/early 36hp and a regular 36hp piece of tin.
They are not related to the curvature though. |
Thanks. I bought one a couple of months ago for an engine I have as a future project. Wanted to make sure it would work with an early crank-start apron that I have. They're stored in different locations so couldn't check easily.
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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Malokin Martin
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2007
Posts: 3099
Location: E-burg
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: 40 horse to 1600+ engine apron/lid swap |
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| Thank you for the info!! |
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