Fog lights for a '61

[dmeffert]

Good morning all. I was looking for some advice for my 61 ragtop project. I would really like to do a set of vintage fog or driving lights, and I want to stick close to the period of the car. I have been looking at various styles of Bosch lamps, and wondered which ones were correct. There are some with nipples on the lenses with script type logo, some with no nipples and a couple of different block letter logos. Does anyone know the years these things changed? If this has already been done as a topic, could you direct me to the link. Thank you for your time.

[hitest]

I don't have a link- but in the accessories forums you'll find far more about fog lights. Several threads in there when you search.

Also, visit the literature section for accessory books from the period- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/
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[dmeffert]

Thank you for your reply! I will peruse these these sections when I get home tonight. It seems like the Bosch lamps with the script are 1950s era stuff. There is so much to choose from out there.

[Meiang]

I started to collect old automobile fog lamps fairly recently especially the pre-halogen lamp variety which uses the british pre-focus bulbs.

For 1961 lmaps you are looking at north of US$1,500 for a pair and they are fairly hard to find. Even scratched and pitted lamps go for a lot of money.

Bosch and Hella lamps form the late 1960' go for around US$500-$750.

The best value lamps are the British made Miller fog lamps. They look good and the quality is similar to the Bosch/Hella Lamps for the period and they are substantially cheaper.

[dmeffert]

Wow, that's a nice looking lamp. Thank you.

[dmeffert]

Hey everyone, I found this on a MB website. It's the Hella accessory catalog from 1961 showing the lamps and brackets.

[dmeffert]

Thank you all for your ideas on this. I made an impulse buy on ebay this morning and bought a pair of Hella 127 fog lights that were near me in NY. They are oval shaped and in that 61 catalog, so they are period if nothing else. I will post a pic when I mount them.

[KTPhil]

I had those on my '67 Bug, and they were very well built. Interesting they yellowed the reflector, not the glass or bulb, on my set. The lenses can be flipped upside down and refitted, necessary since they fit below the bumper on the Porsches. I liked them on my '67 because they were styled like the back-up lamps, only bigger.
They were originally fitted to 356/911 Porsches, so they ain't cheap!

[dmeffert]

Now I have to figure out how to mount them.

[dmeffert]

KTPhil, how did you mount them. That's exactly how I envisioned it.

[KTPhil]

At first I mounted that pencil beam Cibie lamp and the foglamps on a custom welded bracket a neighbor made for me. Unfortunately, it left them too far out front to not get banged up by careless parkers. So I added a further springy 3/4" bar a few inches in front. Later I gave up on the pencil beam, and mounted the foglamps on the underside of the fender lips, below the bumper. I had to bend a reinforcing bar because the fender itself flexed too much. Then the car was stolen.

So I don't recommend this location... too easy for a clod to smash them. A well made bracket to clamp on the bumper brackets would work better.

[dmeffert]

Thas a really good point. Perhaps the towel bar bracket is best. I have already had a drunk back into my car at the local liquor store. Thankfully the bumper survived, but had there been lights in front of it they would have been toast.

[dmeffert]

KTPhil, are they too thick to fit between the bumper blade and towel bar?

[KTPhil]

Yes, they won't fit in between.

There were clamps and a mount available back in the day, and maybe they are being reproduced. They clamped to the flat brackets and had an arm that the lamp mounted to.

These look like them, but I bet you can flip them so the lamp is under, not over, the bumper blade:
https://www.eisparts.com/bracket-fog-light-and-reverse-lightall-car-pair.html

https://www.vwispwest.com/BOB-B9014-2.html

The arm angles may or may let them fit up tight to the underside of the bumper blade, so check for variations online or call one of the vendors. And the lamp mounting may be different, but you get the idea, and may have to improvise.

[dmeffert]

Interesting thought. Running them under the bumper might be cool. Very 356 like.

[KTPhil]

They work best that way. Even in heavy fog, there is a space about 1-2 ft high that the warmer pavement has cleared some of the fog from, and low foglamps with a sharp upper cutoff will "skip" the beam between the ground and the fog, illuminating much further down the road than a lamp mounted high. Aim is critical, and you have to watch parking curbs in parking lots, but it's worth it.

[my59]

[Rome]

For the reasons KYPhil mentioned, fog lights are supposed to only be active either with the parking lights or the headlamp low beams on. Never with high beams. High beams on the headlamps would reflect against the fog droplets and reflect back at you. So when you wire up the fogs with your 4-terminal accessory relay, use a wire for the trigger circuit terminal 85 or 86 that taps into the LOW beam circuit. That way, when the low beam is de-energized when you switch to high beam, power is taken away from the fog lights.

In that vintage Hella catalog, driving lights all have flat lenses. The light beam is focused by the lamp housing's concave reflector, and the light beam travels through the glass without any dispersion. By contrast, fogs have "fluted" lenses which spread the light output much wider.

I've used a "P"-shaped accessory light mounting bracket for a motorcycle round engine guard pipe that fits the Beetle's and Ghia's towel rail. It has a large flat tab off the back end with a 1/2" or larger hole so that you can mount the lamp stud through that. The bracket uses 4 small Allen bolts to clamp it together once it's on the towel rail. But those are best for driving lights, because you want driving lights up as high as possible to gain height for a further light beam reach down the road.

SUVs and several European vehicles (e.g.,M-B, Audi, Jag) have REAR fog lights as well. The bulbs are the same wattage as brake lights. The switch to activate the rears is often a 2nd position on the same switch as the front fogs, just going 1 stop further. This is why you see so many oblivious people driving with the really irritating rear fog light on in clear weather, because they have their front fogs on but don't realize or care that the rears are on with the 2nd switch position. Looks like they are driving with their foot lightly on the brake pedal. Even though there's a telltale light for the rears in the instrument cluster, they just think it's for the front fogs. If you come up behind those dunces and flash your high beams, they NEVER get the hint and either slow down to irritate you, or hit their high beams once you drive past.

BMWs don't offer rear fogs in the US market for this very reason of "driver misuse".

Since you are in Orange Cty NY, have you ever driven down to Chris Vallone's shop "Classic VW Bugs" in Congers, Rockland Cty for any of his open houses or fall foliage drives?

[dmeffert]

Rome, no I haven't, but I have met him and have emailed him for advice in the past. George, my Beetle, is kind of a mess still. Some day I will drive him down there. I'll tell you what, I wouldn't mind having a red rear fog light as George is a '61, and has snowflake tail lights, which aren't very bright. If I was ever driving in the fog, perhaps having additional lighting in the rear isnt such a bad idea.
Are you going to the All Air Cooled show next month?

[stale air]

I had posted this over on the accessories forum, but thought I would piggy back it onto this thread now instead since there has already been some good info posted...


I recently picked up this Bosch script fog light and I got a couple questions about it it. The 1st question is I've looked through all the Bosch accessory brochures, and I can't seem to find this particular foglight illustrated. Does anybody have any info on it?

The 2nd question is with the brackets. Pictured below, has anybody had any luck mounting that style fog light with those brackets and had it still clear the upper towell bar? I've seen all kinds of different brackets used before, but before I spend the money on the brackets below I want to make sure they were they will work with an American spec car.

Thanks, for the help,

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