Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1

[Glenn]

[jpaull]

[Glenn]

^^^^^^^
Type 4 = 914
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

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[jpaull]

[Wreck]

[Erik G]

[Wreck]

[Glenn]

[jpaull]

[Wreck]

[Glenn]

[jpaull]

[LivinInnaVWBus]

[VintageFilm]

I sure like my little 1.8 type4. Old photo but still looks a bit like this.stays cool in the SoCal summer. Gobs of power and torque, a very happy little motor in a 63 rag.

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Grace McKay
vintagefilmchannel.com
electricpictures.tv
1963 Type 4 Ragtop

[oprn]

[raygreenwood]

Actually.....technically.....its a VW engine. As noted...it came in the VW 411 first. But it is also the exact same engine to the last part number....as the type 4 engines that NEXT went into the Porsche 914 ( in 1.7L and 1.8L displacements). The only differences are sheet metal and exhaust manifolds.
The 2.0L engine .....914 specific....was the only one that was a Porsche only version of the engine. Different pistons, heads, sheet metal, intake system....and in Europe....a different cam. So yes....technically....if you have a 2.0L Porsche 914 engine....you DO have a Porsche engine.
And....on which factory floor its made has little difference. Its like saying the Ford "Cologne" V6 that went into more brands than Ford....makes those cars either Ford's or German built.

And.....the type 4 was NOT a bus engine. It was LATER made into a bus engine. The versions in the bus....whether 1.7L, 1.8L or 2.0L.....were only the same as 411, 412 and 914 Porsche.....in the overall case castings. 1.7 and 1.8 head castings, crank and rod forgings....were the same. Pistons, cams, induction, ignition, tuning...were a good deal different.

Though the bus engines are "detuned"....they are made the way they need to be for a 4000 lb low geared loaf.

But opt for half hp?....stock at least....about the best that type 1s put out was what....58hp? Maybe 62 hp?....and you could overheat them with extended 65 mph driving in hot climates?....and they typically need a valve job at 50-70k....and have a "best running" service life before a refurb (not a total rebuild).....of 80-100k?

The type 4 is really just the type 1.....that finally got all of the improvements VW learned from building what.....15 million vehicles between about 1949 and 1966 when type 4 hit the drawing boards (it came out in the 411 in 1968).

But.....it has no need for "hoover mods". They are built in. It already has ratio rockers from the factory (1.3:1). Larger oil cooler with dedicated air supply, larger oil galleys, larger crank webs in the case, 40% more head cooling fins, full flow oil filter, crank fed fan....no belts, larger displacement across the board, they rarely need align bore due to better case alloy, no case cracking issues.

All of them came with alternator. All of them came with either twin carbs or fuel injection.

So why would you want one?....well....in type 4 cars....not so much buses....these are typically 150,000 mile engines. No half life valve job needed. Of course all of this dependent on how well you care for it. All day everyday high speed highway in hot weather....no problem. Better low end torque than any of the STOCK type 1 motors....and generally better heating even without gas furnace. And roughly 1.75x tbe hp of the basic bug out of the box.

In the 411/412 and 914...

In the injected 1.7L....82hp
In the injected 1.8L (smog) 76hp....what a detuned waste...because
In the Euro 412 1.8 with twin carbs.....about 85
A 1.8L with proper compression and ignition with stock injection....about 90hp
914 2.0 with injection...same exact injsction with same exact parts as 1.7L except injectors.....95hp.
Euro version with only a cam change and +0.4 compression ratio change....an honest 100hp.

So.....having some versions of a type 4 engine in your car....and calling it a Porsche engine....if its at least Porsche spec.....I have little problem with. Having a beat out 1.8 bus motor in your bug and calling it a Porsche engine.....I have an issue with.

I also keep wondering....not beating on anyone.....if you are NOT racing (thats a different deal).....how you can get hung up in "cost per HP" calculations. You are in the wrong hobby if you are looking at it that way and you are not racing. Ray

[Glenn]

[Mikedrevguy]

I’ve had several T4/Porsche 914 motors fall into my lap.
I’ve 2 2L and an 1.8L and a shell to build up. I’ve a pair of 2L pair of 3bolt heads (1 rebuilt) and a single 3bolt head. Plus, I’ve a line on components for. 2800.
Would I be foolish to not make use of the resources I’ve been given?
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74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato

Illigitimi non-Carborundum!!

[nextgen]

To make is simple, THe 914 was to be called a VW in the U.S and a Porsche with the 6 cylinder in Europe.

Well the it was only a verbal agreement and the head of VW died. The new guy said both engine the 4 and the 6 in the U.S will be under the Porsche name.

The T-4 came out in 1968 in the 914 later in 73 it went into buses.

So is it a Porsche or is it a VW. Is the Rabbit a VW or an AUDI

Is the Toyota BRZ a Subaru or a Toyota

Is the Toyota Supra A Toyota or a BMW

Is the Porsche 912e with a T-4 engine a VW or a Porsche

The 1.7 914 had 80 hp 20 more HP the the most powerful T-1

The 1.8 914 had 84 hp

The 2.0 914 had 100 hp

A fact most guys don't know is the 914-6 was only 2.0 and had only 109 hp
the 914 was almost as fast except on top end.

The 914-6 in one year won 11 out of 12 races, and that one year came in 2nd.

Soooooooo, What engine do you want in your bug does it really matter if it is a Porsche or a VW - it is the HP ya want.

My engine I bought at Manhattan Porsche in NYC - Unused Training engine.
I took the Porsche Emblem off my crashed 914 and put it on my engine.

Porsche sold it as a porsche.
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