Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap)

[Sloride]

Keep the updates coming.
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1972 Westfalia - 1.8 VW in-line h2o conversion
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Link to the engine swap:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=565304&highlight=

1964 Ruby Red Beetle

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=705757&highlight=ruby+red

[Vee Dub Nut]

[skills@eurocarsplus]

my radiator hangs down about 1.5-1.75" below the frame. still, the oil pan and front beam are still the lowest points.

if you hate the look, rattle can the tanks black or whatever color and make them 'disappear'

hottest I have ever gotten is 203-205* which is well below the Subaru cooling strategy. I had a 90-93* day when I was heading to a show and hammered down for about an hour at 75-80.

spal is $$$$ but they make nice shit.
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[Convoy]

Stoked you find the energy and will power to keep refining your radiator setup and I always look forward seeing a post by you Vdub.

BTW Skills because of you man I successfully finished my Subaru conversion over a year ago with youR knowledge and input. I took what you said and ran with it and I can say I'm very pleased with the results.
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1974 Westfalia
2.2 Subie
Benco 002

[skills@eurocarsplus]

^^^

glad to help. what was your total cost? I tell people DIY is in the 5-7k range with a trans and used engine.... cheaper if you do nothing to the engine and just install it
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[Vee Dub Nut]

[Vee Dub Nut]

[Convoy]

[Vee Dub Nut]

[Vee Dub Nut]

Well, its under the knife again! Living that #jackstandlife

Pulled the original radiator out this afternoon. Did quite a bit of experimenting with this guy in regards to positioning, scoops, fan arrangement, and in/out tube placement. Feel like I learned a lot in the process. Looking forward to getting the next iteration built up and installed.

Pretty stoked to be able to completely reuse all my existing mounts with the new rad. I really like how these fit up, and they just really look nice and polished.

Pulled out the seats too so I can permanently route my scan gauge cable from the OBD port up to the dash. I'll also have to get into my power distribution wiring to install the new up-rated relays for the larger fans.

And just because this post needs more Subaru content

Current shop situation... stinking hot

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Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2006

67 Beetle (TBD)

74 Transporter (EJ25 Swapped) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

See all my VW pics on Instagram @ vee_dub_nut

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[Vee Dub Nut]

[Vee Dub Nut]

Ok, back in for some more cooling system updates. Fortunately for you guys, this should be the end of it Been busting my hump for the past few days getting all the updated components installed. Let's catch you guys up...

First up, fans... Thanks to the local Summit Racing store, these showed up the next day after ordering. I'm a big fan (get it? ) of Spal for their cooling fan offerings. They build a VERY nice product. $pendy for sure, but very high quality. I went from two 11" fans, to two 13" fans, which over doubled my CFM potential. I had experimented with both pushers and pullers before with the 11" fans, and for this round of changes I'm returning to the top side mounting in a pusher arrangement. These fans are a pretty significant jump up in motor power from what I had before, so I had to re-work all my fan wiring from what was there. For that I again turned to Spal for their nice relay/harness setup (PN: Spal FRH). The relay is rated for 40amps and the harness is made up from very high quality wiring. Again, a little $pendy, but worth it. I'm using the stock fan relay to trigger the dual Spal relays. A little redundant, but I wasn't sure about hanging two separate relays off the same ECU ground trigger.

Here are a couple of shots of my old fans next to the new ones. Quite the setup up in motor size.

The relays were installed under the rear seat with all the rest of the harness for simplicity. Power feeds come direct from the battery though, as the current draw of both fans were a little more than the fused feed I have located under the rear seat.

Next up, the radiator itself. As I mentioned before, the only real change here was going to a slightly larger core version of what I had before. I thought I'd be slick and called up Afco and asked about getting one custom built (essentially having them take their stock offering and supplying it to me with the tubes relocated already). They said they could do it, but it would be an 8 to 10 week wait time. NO THANKS. I didn't even ask about pricing.

Instead I ordered their standard offering from some random vendor on eBay, and had it in my hands just a few days later. Once I got it Thursday, I immediately unboxed it after work, and busted out the band saw and tig welder to get it modified. My argon tank was getting on the low side, so I wanted to either make sure I could get it all welded up on what was there, or have a chance to take the tank with me to work on Friday to swing by the local welder supply to get it swapped. The goal was to have this all buttoned up before the end of the weekend. Fortunately I had enough to do the full job on what was there, so it was relatively quick work. I'm also happy to report my aluminum tig skills are getting better. Still no pro, but I'm pretty stoked on how it came out.

Here is the cut up radiator. Nothing like taking a brand new $250 part out of the box and start cutting it up

The new in/out tubes, and plugs for the old tubes

And weld'er up!

Next step is a pressure check. Always nice to find any leaks BEFORE you get it hung under the Bus and filled with coolant. Just a couple of hoses and PVC pipe plugs, and you can put a little air pressure on the core. I usually fill the radiator with water too, so you can see any leaks if they exist. Also used this opportunity to see how the new fans fit. Snug as a bug!

What's not shown is the air bleeds. To make it as easy as possible to purge any air from the coolant system during the initial fill, I strategically place air bleeds at any point that can trap air. For the way my system is laid out, it really only boils down to the rad tanks themselves. Since my radiator is a two pass core, I put two bleeders on the top of the segmented tank, and a single bleeder on the top of the common tank. Makes for a quick and easy way to get all the air out when filling. No crazy antics burping the system, or jacking it up to get the air to come out.

From there it was then just getting it re-installed using all the same mounts as before. Naturally I had to drill a couple new holes for the front mount, as the radiator is now ~5" longer than before. This also required me to remount the scoop further forward as well. No big deal. I also remade the scoop side plates while I was at it. I did this only to correct some oblong holes I had to make in the original side plates when things didn't line up as originally planned when I first built it

The fill panels that sit on each side of the radiator core also had to be remade to make up for the extra length. The flanges on this core were slightly different, so instead of the angled fill panels I did before, I did flat panels from the top side of the core flange directly over to the frame, which sit in the same plane. With the fill panels in place, the frame is all boxed in and allows an easy high pressure zone to be built up on the top side of the radiator.

So all this is well and good, but the proof is in the pudding right? Regardless of my intentions with any of these changes, real world driving is the only true test. As you can imagine I was pretty anxious to get it out and drive it. As I've stated before, my previous system was a good 95% there overall, but I have been tracking its performance obsessively to really figure out what was working and where it came up short. As such, any changes in performance would be very easily noticeable. So after a solid 2.5 days of working on it, today was the day to put it to the test. It was great day for testing too, as it was a nice balmy 95F+ down here in Atlanta. A great time to just go drive around and sweat right

I did a ~45 mile test loop from my house. Driving was mixed, with everything from 55mph two lane back roads, in town stop and go, to a 75mph blast up the highway. I'm VERY happy to report that temps hung right at 184F the entire time, only getting higher when I got into town in the stop and go stuff. As expected, temps came right back down once I was rolling again. That in itself is only part of the story. The real news for me was watching how the behavior of the temps changed. Its very obvious to me to see how the additional core size is impacting performance. Hard to detail it all here, but the change is very noticeable when you watch temperature behavior during warmup, coasting down or driving up a hill, how quickly it cools down from stop and go driving, etc. I'm happy to report that the radiator change is behaving very well. As for the new fans go.. who knows.. they didn't have to come on the entire drive. I'll call that a success. And all in a package that still ticks the looks box for me too!

So there you have it folks, the "secret" to the subi cooling conundrum is no secret at all... it's just persistence and hard work. A LOT of work...

IMO there is certainly more than one way to skin this cat. Everyone has different priorities in terms of positioning, aesthetics, fan cycling, flow direction, etc, etc. I've studied a lot of systems from all over the map during my research (some that work, and others that obviously didn't), and I did A TON of my own first hand testing making changes on my original system several times throughout the past year trying to refine it. In the end, I've ended up something that is working very well, and balances all these factors for me.

It's really pretty simple overall... you have to get air to the radiator, and give it a way out. You have to balance the air flow you can create with core size, its efficiency, fan size, etc, etc. Its not just as easy tossing a radiator underneath and calling it good. Anyone who tells you that is not telling you the whole story, just got plain lucky, or their system doesn't actually work and is heavily dependent on fans/runs hot. That said, it CAN be done.

Something else that's been rolling through my mind and thought was worth saying... if you're not a DIY type and are looking at paying someone to do a swap for you, and they CAN'T have an educated conversation with you on all these factors, and/or drive you around in a swapped Bus they built and demonstrate their abilities to you first hand.. buyer beware.

I ceratinly don't think mine is the one and "only" solution, but I'd put it up against anyone else's... This swap is still the single best thing I've done to the Bus. Hard to explain it if you've never driven one, but it turned this old Bus into a WHOLE new vehicle...
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Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2006

67 Beetle (TBD)

74 Transporter (EJ25 Swapped) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

See all my VW pics on Instagram @ vee_dub_nut

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[riverside66]

Killer bus, killer job! I've enjoyed reading these updates for sure. Clearly way over my abilities to DIY. I'm impressed!
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1977 Standard Beetle -Sold-
1979 Transporter - "Wheatbread" -Sold-

[airschooled]

Nice job, when does the AC go in???

Those Spal fans seem expensive, but they're still cheaper than getting a new T1 fan welded and balanced… Only bummer is that you need two.

Robbie
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Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com

[Convoy]

VDub again great progress!
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1974 Westfalia
2.2 Subie
Benco 002

[Vee Dub Nut]

[Vee Dub Nut]

[Vee Dub Nut]